TRANSCRIPT
Office Ladies | Episode 224 - An Interview with Allison Jones
Jenna [00:00:04] I'm Jenna Fischer.
Angela [00:00:05] And I'm Angela Kinsey.
Jenna [00:00:06] We were on the office together.
Angela [00:00:07] And we're best friends.
Jenna [00:00:09] And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.
Angela [00:00:13] Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.
Jenna [00:00:21] We're the office ladies 6.0.
Angela [00:00:26] That was so fun to hear our new intro.
Jenna [00:00:30] I love it.
Angela [00:00:32] Yeah, me too.
Jenna [00:00:33] Well, we are very excited today. We are going to kick off office Ladies 6.0 with an interview you've all been asking for. Casting director, Allison Jones.
Angela [00:00:44] Yes. I can't think of a better person to have as our first interview for Office Ladies 6.0 and she is one of the most requested guests you guys have written in about.
Jenna [00:00:55] Yes. When we go through suggestions of people that office ladies fans wanted to hear from. The overwhelming winner is Allison Jones.
Angela [00:01:03] Listen, if you are a fan of movies and television, chances are you have seen Allison's name on some of your favorite programs. Here are just a few. Okay. She helped cast Family Ties, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Freaks and Geeks, Spin City, Undeclared, Parks and Recreation. Arrested Development, The Good Place, Rutherford Falls. Curb Your Enthusiasm, and of course, The Office.
Jenna [00:01:25] She also cast movies. I'm going to say some movie titles Do it. Barbie. Lady Bird. Talladega Nights. 40 year old Virgin. Superbad. Thunder Force. Knocked Up. Sing. Ghostbusters. Funny people. Bridesmaids. Step Brothers. My gosh. I mean, there's so many.
Angela [00:01:49] So many. We didn't even list them all. We didn't even come close. This woman is a powerhouse and has forever made her mark on the entertainment industry. And Jenna, before we play our interview with Allison, I thought we might want to answer this fan question.
Jenna [00:02:04] Okay.
Angela [00:02:05] It's from Amelia in Akron, Ohio. Jenna and Angela, what unique gift does Allison bring to the casting experience compared to other casting directors you've worked with?
Jenna [00:02:17] That's a great question. I mean, I think when you listen to our interview with her, you are going to hear what a thoughtful and engaging person she is. And for me. Going in to meet with her was very different from meeting with other casting directors. She has a real curiosity about people and I felt like she was very interested in getting to know me as a person as well as me as a performer.
Angela [00:02:50] That's exactly it. When I walked into her office, I was nervous, but she was instantly so calming to me and I felt like she was working with me. That's how I felt. She wanted me to do the best performance I could, and I really felt that from her.
Jenna [00:03:08] Well, we asked you guys to send in your questions for Allison, and you sent in so many fantastic questions. And we tried to ask her as many as we could.
Angela [00:03:18] This is such a fantastic interview with an amazing woman. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, Allison Jones is here.
Allison [00:03:37] Hello.
Jenna [00:03:40] It's so fun to have you in the studio.
Allison [00:03:42] Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Angela [00:03:44] Not just Allison in the studio, but three bins of stuff that you brought from your storage facility.
Allison [00:03:51] Yep.
Jenna [00:03:52] You also brought us absolutely gorgeous floral arrangements.
Allison [00:03:57] You deserve them. Yes.
Angela [00:03:59] They're so pretty. And we have a little something for you because you're our very first guest on office Ladies 6.0. Thank you. This is for you.
Allison [00:04:06] Thank you. Can't wait. I've been looking at it.
Jenna [00:04:09] Well. One of the folks at Audacy helped us make these for our guests moving forward. And we're so tickled.
Allison [00:04:18] This is fantastic.
Angela [00:04:19] Okay, turn it around.
Allison [00:04:21] Oh my gosh.
Jenna [00:04:24] Tell people what it says.
Allison [00:04:26] World's best podcast guest. That's fantastic. And who drew the cartoon?
Angela [00:04:31] Our friend Ileana.
Allison [00:04:33] It's amazing.
Angela [00:04:33] Yeah, she's a great artist. Yeah.
Allison [00:04:35] I remember fondly sitting across from Steve when he was testing for the pilot, and he had the world's best boss mug holding it, and he was reading his monologue audition, and he was holding this, so very good. Yeah.
Jenna [00:04:49] Well, Allison, we told our fans we were going to be interviewing you and they sent in a ton of questions and I thought we could kick things off with this one. This is from Chelsea Frazier in Greenville, South Carolina. Chelsea asked, Did you go to college? And if so, what did you study? I'd imagine that casting would take someone who's good with people like maybe sociology or communications. But I'm curious where Allison built that amazing ability to spot a good fit.
Allison [00:05:20] God bless you, Chelsea. That's a great question. I did indeed go to college. Not for any kind of media, anything. I went I grew up back East and I went to college in Los Angeles at Pomona College. And I was an art major and a math minor. After that I went to business school of all places at UCLA, got an MBA degree went to work in advertising for a year in New York City, I didn't like it. I was miserable. And a friend of mine from business school, Lydia Woodward, who is a very successful writer, producer, she wrote E.R., etc., a lot of shows. She said, I'm at AFI. It's a gas. You should come out and do it. You can get good loans, student loans. So I did that and I went to the American Film Institute. And after AFI, I needed a job. And my same friend Lydia said, I think you'd like casting because you remember faces. So I just applied for. That was when you had to type letters to try to get an interview and you had to follow up the letter with a phone call. Anyway, one person called me back and I got the job with a casting director named Judith Weiner, the late Judith Weiner, who at the time was doing a lot of comedy, for which Thomas Harris and is the mid-eighties. And so I started doing a lot of comedy. Then I started doing a lot of comedy. My own taste was definitely developed just by having a bunch of brothers and sisters and and my own vibe was developed.
Jenna [00:07:05] How many brothers and sisters do you have?
Allison [00:07:07] I have five.
Jenna [00:07:08] So you're one of six?
Allison [00:07:10] I'm one of six. And we were all into things like in the 60s and 70s, we worshiped the Three Stooges. We worshiped Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In. We worshiped a lot of comedy back then. Peter Sellers, Jack Lemmon, Walter Matthau. Anyway, that was definitely developed for me by my older siblings and we all were big comedy fans.
Angela [00:07:29] So, you know, Allison, my dad would enter a room and he would go "entah" just like Walter Matthau and I didn't know what he was doing till years later.
Allison [00:07:38] My God. We could quote lines from the Odd Couple and Peter Sellers forever and ever.
Jenna [00:07:45] Well, this next question is one that we ask all of our guests. Okay. Which is, how did you get your job on The Office?
Allison [00:07:53] Okay. I think I had just finished doing a show called Freaks and Geeks, and I think Greg Daniels liked the realness of the actors that we hired on Freaks and Geeks, which was the first time I'd ever been asked to cast a show like that. It was kind of when you look back, it was pretty earth shattering to cast teenagers who were not like, you know, then we call them WB people, the WB, the gorgeous kids who were 28 playing 18.
Angela [00:08:20] Because everyone had to be super pretty.
Allison [00:08:23] Everyone had to be Dawson's Creek and they were all in their mid-twenties playing, you know, 17, 18. But Paul Feig and Judd Apatow were like, We just want real kids. And I understood immediately being having been one of those myself. Then they were making a lot more teen shows than they do now. So having pretty well-versed in the teen stuff, it was the kids who didn't get the show I did right before that called Roswell High, who I brought in for Freaks and Geeks, who I remembered were so good. And they came in like James Franco, Jason Segel. They came in and they were right for Freaks and Geeks. Jill Greenburg, my colleague in New York, and Corey Mairs, my colleague in Vancouver, equally major in doing the pilot of Freaks and Geeks with getting the real kids, Seth Rogen and Joe Greenberg, Vance and Levine. But anyway, Greg, I think, just liked the way that was cast. And so he called me in and I interviewed and I was so nervous because HBO had just started airing the British office at the same time, they had also started airing Ali G So it was like, What is this brand new, unbelievably smart, funny way they're doing comedy in Britain? It's incredible. So anyway, I was so excited to get an interview for The Office. I'm sure he interviewed quite a few people. Greg is thorough. We had a good talk and Greg was, you know, he's very thoughtful about his process and I appreciate that. But I got that with Greg. I think there were probably a handful of casting people who interviewed for it as we still have to interview for all of our jobs like actors. And we do the same things. We beat ourselves up after an interview. God, why did I say that? That was stupid.
Angela [00:10:30] Allison with your resume, you still interview? They don't look at everything you've done and just say, Give me Allison Jones, please.
Allison [00:10:37] Not always believe it or not. For half hours. I still have to sometimes, which is sad to me.
Angela [00:10:46] You know, I got a call to play the bitch on a show recently and they wanted me to come in and read. And I always do. I was traveling and I was like going to miss the window audition. And I said, You know, if they want to see me play a bitch, ask them to watch the first nine years of The Office. Just ask them to watch nine seasons any episode.
Allison [00:11:06] Yeah, yeah.
Angela [00:11:07] And they'll find the bitch.
Allison [00:11:08] Wow. I'm sorry about that. It is an excruciating part of my job is having to have people come in who should never have to audition. And still people, young producers, young directors, young studio people, young, everything have to see people read because they don't have imagination. Like I have a fine tuned imagination about taking someone, their personality and seeing if it can be transferred into an acting thing, which is a large part, I will say, of how the Judd Apatow, Paul Feig Office School of Comedy came along, because we have to look beyond how people do line readings and see what they're like as people. Again, people like Judd and huge comedy geniuses who sort of started this whole real comedy kind of vibe or improv kind of comedy vibe. They'll see what they can bring to it as opposed to see how they read the lines that you wrote. Yeah. It doesn't have to be word for word, you know? And people who are funnier than anything that's written on the page get a chance to improvise. Like Steve Carell and some of the early Second City people who came to town when I first met them. Nia Vardalos and Steve Carell. Yeah, like that, who are Second City back in the early 90s, probably would come in and bless them all, not be the greatest auditioners. Comedy doesn't always translate well into auditioning with somebody else's sitcom jokes and punching the lines up And back in the 90s, if you didn't stay on on book, as they say. I think producers were horrified. No, she changed that line. I can't hire them. But with the onslaught of a lot of improv comedy. From standup comedy to improv comedy casting. One of the sad things is having to have people read who absolutely don't need to read. I guarantee on casting, people have great empathy for actors or believe me, we wouldn't be doing this.
Jenna [00:13:01] I talk to aspiring actors sometimes, go into their classes and take questions. And one of the things that I always really try to tell people is that the casting director is rooting for you. They want nothing more than for you to come in and be great. Yeah, because if you're great, their job is done and they have found you and it's exciting to them. So they are absolutely rooting for you. And and I say like, it's okay to ask a question. Let them help you get this job. Yeah.
Allison [00:13:33] Yeah. That's perfect. That's perfect. I mean, now it's still a little bit different because now I think the trend has headed to a lot of self taping. Yeah.
Angela [00:13:41] Yeah.
Allison [00:13:42] Which for me, self taping is better for like a lot of pre reads, I can meet infinitely more people with pre-tape.
Jenna [00:13:51] We should tell people what a pre-tape is. That's where if you get an audition for a show, they email you the materials and then in your house, you put yourself on tape reading the scene, and then you send it back to the casting director. But back when we were auditioning, it was more common that you would have to physically go into the casting office and sit across from someone like Phyllis or someone like you and you read the scene with us.
Allison [00:14:16] Yes.
Jenna [00:14:17] And we could even get maybe a little notes or feedback in the moment. But now it really is a lot more since Covid especially, you send in a tape of yourself.
Angela [00:14:26] Yes, I think it's less stressful.
Allison [00:14:28] I think so, too. And I think actors, we now give people the choice they'll often pick. I don't want to drive across town at 2:00 and I can do ten takes at home. Those are considered pre reads. I mean, and then they go to the producers and then we still have auditions with producers in person. For sure. We couldn't for a while and that was, you know, it was I'll be honest, it was fairly hurtful when during Covid people would accuse casting people of not doing our jobs because we were having people self tape. That was massively hurtful. Yeah. Because as a rule, who goes to bat more for an actor than a casting person? Nobody does.
Angela [00:15:05] Exactly.
Allison [00:15:06] So many people out there have gigantic parts and careers and they have no idea how close they came to not getting that job until the casting director fought for them and showed them every piece of tape we could find showed them being interviewed on every talk show everything, or didn't let them take another job and made sure they stayed available for the pilot of the office kind of thing. That was rough. But what came of that is that all the self taping, what came of it was we can put so many more people on tape everywhere, you know, Britain, everywhere. And they get shots at it.
Angela [00:15:37] Yeah, because they're not having to come into the room. So you can audition wherever you are in the world.
Allison [00:15:41] People we don't know, It just it just opens it up. It opens up the floodgates and we can see if we're casting kids, they can go home and do it with their folks.
Jenna [00:15:49] Sure.
Allison [00:15:49] And we are trained to spot something on the video. We don't necessarily go by line readings. Yeah, we leave that to the executive producers and then we argue with that. Guys, look at this person. This kid is fantastic. He's green. But he can you know, that's what you get. It's a leap of faith. And you take someone green who you like their vibe and you go with it. Boy, that has worked for me in comedy, that's for sure. Absolutely. Yeah.
Angela [00:16:14] Well, I love not having to sit in the hallway anymore. The long hallway where you're waiting to go in and there's like eight people that look like you, and then you can hear the audition. You could hear the person before you reading the same lines you're about to read.
Jenna [00:16:28] Am I crazy? I like all of that.
Allison [00:16:30] No, that's okay.
Angela [00:16:34] You like the hallway?
Jenna [00:16:36] A little bit.
Angela [00:16:36] What do you like about the hallway?
Allison [00:16:37] You wouldn't anymore.
Jenna [00:16:38] I wouldn't?
Allison [00:16:39] I don't think so. Maybe when you're younger and you really have to audition and go for something, you like that hallway because there's the camaraderie. What I always admire is the camaraderie of actors seeing each other at auditions. And they're friendly and they haven't seen someone in a while. Right? Hey. And they're really thinking, I'm up against this person, I'm up against this person again and again because a lot of actors know who they're up against. They see the sign in sheet and they say, he just came in.
Jenna [00:17:04] My biggest competition my whole career was always Alyson Hannigan.
Allison [00:17:07] I'm sure.
Jenna [00:17:07] Alyson Hannigan and I would be at the same auditions.
Allison [00:17:08] Every actor has auditions has the one they always saw at every audition.
[00:17:15] Yep.
Jenna [00:17:15] And Mary Lynn Rajskub was another one, in fact, she was up for Pam.
Allison [00:17:21] She was. And she was really good, too.
Jenna [00:17:24] I know. I know. She and I tested against each other many a time.
Allison [00:17:28] Yes, I'm sure you did.
Angela [00:17:31] Mary Lynn has a very funny bit that she does in her stand up where people ask for her autograph and they say, you were great as Pam. And she just is like, okay. She just like, she just doesn't even react anymore.
Jenna [00:17:42] That's very funny. I have a very funny Mary Lynn Rajskub story, which is that I had been auditioning for this pilot for the Dan Band, so he was doing the show and there was the part of the waitress, it was the lead girl. And when I read the sides, I thought, I'm going to do like my best Mary Lynn Rajskub. That is I mean, literally going to do an impression of her because that's how I see this part. And I walked into the test audition and she was sitting right there and I thought, you know what? At least I knew what they were going for. Like, I at least interpreted it right. And then guess what? There was one other girl there, a tall, blond Australian actress. She got the part.
Allison [00:18:22] My God.
Jenna [00:18:23] Mary Lynn and I did not get it. It went to the third girl, but I thought that was really funny. I was like, there she is.
Angela [00:18:30] Yeah, mine is Rachel Harris.
Allison [00:18:33] Sure, of course.
Angela [00:18:34] And then she ended up playing my sister in the finale, which is perfect. But I feel like there's a show out there somewhere where we're related.
Allison [00:18:42] Yes, The Groundlings was very, very good to the Office. Everybody in the Groundlings and UCB and all of that. Yeah.
Jenna [00:18:49] Well, speaking of that, a lot of people wrote in to ask, How do you start casting a project? Can you tell us a little bit about how you assemble a cast and what were some of the things that you and Greg first talked about in terms of a vision for the show?
Allison [00:19:05] Well, we had a template, the British office, and I think we discussed it didn't make sense to me to really do duplicates of the people in a British office. But their kind of essence, you know, Jim was a little less self-confident, that kind of thing. And so I think he mostly discussed just real people. He just we just need to get real people in here to start to audition. So I started by doing a lot of pre reads, meaning they came to my office and would read the sides and I would at the time, I don't think we taped pre reads. We could ask Phyllis that question, I don't think we did and that we were in an office across from CBS Radford and it was just Phyllis and me, the before-times Phyllis.
Jenna [00:19:45] Yes that's right. Yeah.
Allison [00:19:48] And we always pre read every casting director. You do so much legwork, you're pre reading so many actors, blah blah, blah. I knew Jenna, I knew you because you had already done undeclared, right? You had done. Yeah, well, I just knew because Naomi.
Jenna [00:20:00] Yeah you took a general meeting with me.
Allison [00:20:02] Yes, that's right. Was Phyllis there?
Jenna [00:20:04] Phyllis was there.
Jenna [00:20:04] St Louis.
Allison [00:20:05] Yeah, right.
Jenna [00:20:06] And then you called me in for a role on Undeclared, Right? Right. And I got it right. It was one line.
Allison [00:20:14] Yeah.
Jenna [00:20:15] And then you called me back all the time for different shows, and I never got any jobs, but, for five years, you kept bringing me into your office. Allison.
Angela [00:20:26] Did you do Spin City?
Jenna [00:20:28] Spin City was my very first job. That was the very first one. And then Undeclared.
Allison [00:20:35] Okay, great.
Jenna [00:20:35] You had brought me in for Freaks and Geeks. Right. But I didn't go anywhere.
Allison [00:20:41] Okay, okay.
Jenna [00:20:42] But you just kept calling me back and calling me back and calling you back for auditions. And then for the office, you called Naomi, and you said, I'm going to bring Jenna straight to producers. I think she would be great for this role of Pam. But you need to tell her something. Tell her two things. Dare to bore me with your audition. I'll never forget those words. Dare to bore me. Do not come in and do a bunch of comedy shtick. She needs to play it super real. And also no glam. I want her coming in looking natural.
Allison [00:21:20] Right?
Jenna [00:21:21] That's what they're looking for. I was like, Got it.
Allison [00:21:25] Well, you came to mind immediately for sure. Jenna Fischer for that part. And also, those were the days where you didn't have to attach big names to anything. Greg was very open just to new faces and real people, and I knew what he meant right away. So I just went back and I would usually do a week or two of pre reads, getting to know everybody. And I would call Naomi and we would get all the groundlings in and etc., etc. And I did not want to duplicate the people on the British show, but just their sort of their essence in their what they would bring to a similar character. I think the pilot of the office had a bit of a mandate from NBC to do it, like the pilot of the British office. Yes, it was scripted the same. With all due respect to Greg, it bugged me that we had some British-isms in the in the script. Like you like a drink after work? I'll never forget that. That's such not an American.
Jenna [00:22:17] Way to say that.
Jenna [00:22:18] Not an American way to say that. That was Jim all the Jim had to say. So you like a drink after work? And I was like, Americans, don't say that. Please change it. But I don't think it was changed, at least for the auditions. So it's a couple of weeks of reading. I have all the lists of who came in to pre read here, if you ever want to look at them.
Jenna [00:22:34] I kind of do.
Allison [00:22:36] So many people now who are huge and who then went on to read for producers but didn't get the job.
Allison [00:22:41] Allison you gave me when the show wrapped as a gift my sign in sheet the day of my audition.
Allison [00:22:47] Good.
Angela [00:22:48] Yeah, I even kept it in the the folder. And reading the same day that I was reading was Kathryn Hahn.
Allison [00:22:56] My gosh. Yeah. See, that stuff is great about casting. Many colleagues and I have those old sign in sheets and the old sheets with notes about what we said about actors and things at the time everybody who was anybody in comedy came in. A couple of people passed or or had deals at CBS or something and couldn't come in, but everybody wanted to do the show. So we had a lot of great producers sessions.
Jenna [00:23:17] I remember my producer session.
Allison [00:23:18] I'm sure you do. You were in the stellar first day.
Jenna [00:23:22] Yeah. You said that you found half the cast the first day.
Allison [00:23:27] That usually happens, by the way.
Jenna [00:23:29] Is that right?
Allison [00:23:30] That's very common. Casting People bring in their favorite people first. And if you get them on the day they're available. There are so many independent variables in casting. We're at mercy of other people scheduling double, blah, blah. But frequently for a movie in pilots, etc. you cast it the first week, but because you have to go through the steps and people don't know and they can't think and they can't just say there's 8000 people who have to agree on one person now anyway, more than was then for sure.
Jenna [00:23:56] Well, I remember coming in. Yeah. And you told me.
Allison [00:24:00] Big table.
Jenna [00:24:01] Yes.
Allison [00:24:01] Conference table kind of thing. It was not a good audition space.
Jenna [00:24:05] But you told me we're going to do a little improv right at the producers session. Right. I'm just going to ask you some questions, and then you answer how you think Pam would answer the question. And I remember thinking, okay, Allison's note was Dare to bore me. So. Okay. So I'm sitting there. The camera is on me. There's all these people watching me and you say, So, Pam, do you like being a receptionist? And I went like this. No. And then I didn't say anything else. And the room was like crickets. And my heart was pounding. I'm, like, sweating. And then everybody burst into laughter. And I was like, yes, that's what I was going for. Because I thought, Listen, this girl, my circumstances are that my crazy boss has brought me in front of a documentary crew. I don't have media training. I don't know how to give a good interview. I don't want to say anything bad, but I also don't want to lie. So I'm going to just say no and leave it at that. And I thought the more interesting thing would be all the things you see me not say.
Allison [00:25:23] Right, right.
Jenna [00:25:25] Then, anything I could possibly say. Because I'm not a clever improviser with lines. I am not a Zach Woods. I do not have that command of language. But I'm like, But perhaps there's much I could say without saying much at all.
Angela [00:25:39] I would say, though, Jenna you're an excellent emotional improviser because you have great reactions and you react very honestly. That's another form of improv.
Jenna [00:25:49] Well, thank you. I think of myself as not a very good improviser actually.
Angela [00:25:54] I disagree.
Jenna [00:25:55] I feel like I'm a good reactor to improvising.
Allison [00:25:59] But that's what the Office was all about. That style was reacting as opposed to acting.
Jenna [00:26:03] But I remember you giving me a little wink after that moment. Talk about like, encouraging the actor.
Jenna [00:26:08] I was like okay, good. And I, you know, and I wanted to do right by you because you had believed in me for all those years. I wanted, you know, I wanted to pay that back by doing a good job.
Allison [00:26:21] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I remember them all so vividly. I do. And I would read. Phyllis did the taping. Those were the days where it was VHS tape and we had to transfer the VHS tapes in real time and make like six copies of each VHS tape I had and then send them to NBC or send them to we had to overnight them to England, to Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. And you'd play record and you have to record for 90 minutes while you go through all the auditions. Kids don't have to do that these days. If it doesn't work and something is digitally recorded.
Jenna [00:26:54] I remember being so nervous that you were sending our tapes to Ricky Gervais.
Allison [00:26:59] I probably should never have said anything.
Jenna [00:27:01] Like, well, I think my agent might have told me that, you know, you call them you like anything for any feedback.
Allison [00:27:07] Yeah.
Jenna [00:27:08] And they said, well, they did send you to Ricky and Stephen.
Jenna [00:27:12] And I was like, well, that's good news. I'm really scared.
Allison [00:27:17] I also remember it right after your audition because you were really maybe one of the first four people to read. I don't have the exact number of people, but that was our first session. And Terry Weinberg, you did a long audition because we had a lot of pages then to audition, and then Terry said to you, I could watch you read all day long. I remember she said that I think I even have that on tape after your audition. So she picked you right off the bat.
Jenna [00:27:40] I love Terry.
Allison [00:27:41] But it was such a--it was such a long process, but you were a no brainer to bring in for the first day. Anyway, I do try to bring in who I think are the best for the first day so that the writers get encouraged, etc., etc..
Jenna [00:27:55] That's so sweet.
Allison [00:27:56] I'm curious to ask you, how versed were you on the British pilot? Because I had thought that maybe Steve Carell never really watched the British pilot.
Jenna [00:28:05] Steve never did.
Allison [00:28:09] And what about you guys?
Angela [00:28:10] Yeah. I loved it.
Allison [00:28:11] You did? You were aware of it.
Angela [00:28:13] I loved it. But I remember that I was like, wow, that's going to be huge and scary and daunting because it was done so well and I was so worried. But I thought, if anyone can do it, it'll be Greg. If anyone can, like give it a really great, like, second go, it would be Greg.
Allison [00:28:31] And I think NBC had just uncoupling and it wasn't successful.
Jenna [00:28:37] And I remember getting the call about The Office and I was so excited, I watched the whole thing.
Allison [00:28:42] Yes. So you did.
Jenna [00:28:43] Yeah. And I, I thought, really? They're going to put that on American television. And then I was so worried. Oh no, are they going to change it? But as soon as I met Greg, and really as soon as I got the phone call from your office saying dare to bore me, I was like, they're doing it. Yeah, they're really going to do it. They're going to take a big swing. Yeah, I was excited.
Allison [00:29:07] Yeah. It was something I remember vividly the first meeting we had with the network when he had a list of names and they were like, Let's try Philip Seymour Hoffman. And then, you know, let's go for Paul Giamatti or whatever. And I'm so jaded. I'm like, They're never going to do--In those days, nobody did TV. Comedy was the bottom of the barrel. So it was the bottom of the barrel.
Angela [00:29:29] To me, it was the top of the mountain. It's all I ever wanted to do.
Allison [00:29:32] But for the business, bottom of the barrel, for sure. You're a comedy casting person, you're a comedy actor. You're a comedy writer. You're a comedy director. You couldn't get out of it. But anyway, this was the first time other than Freaks and Geeks, I had the opportunity to get real people who didn't have to be, you know, vaudeville funny or sitcom funny, which is a very difficult thing to be. And so that just goes back into my past of the various kinds of comedy I have been able to witness being. You know, that's a whole other story comedy now being in a bit of a coma.
Jenna [00:30:07] But they wanted like big names, like Paul Giammati?
Jenna [00:30:13] That wasn't always the way it was at NBC anyway. Some networks always had to attach a big name. I recall CBS always wanted to attach a big name to get anything going. NBC was more into standups at the time and having a deal with it. They always made deals with certain stand up comedians and develop roles for. In fact, Steve Carell at the time was under contract to a show for one of the stand ups. They had done a deal with and did a probably a nine episode.
Jenna [00:30:44] Tom Papa..
Allison [00:30:46] He was on Tom Papa's show and we had to wait for him to be released from that for NBC to even have a shot at getting Steve Carell. But Nancy Perkins, who was the head of casting at NBC Universal, always knew Steve would be a top choice for this. I think everybody pretty much knew Steve would be a top choice for this. But for the first month or so, we couldn't get him. And it was like, okay, well, we'll keep we'll keep bringing people in. And we brought in the best of the best. Everybody was a different version of Michael Scott that could have worked. Patton Oswalt could have worked. Bob Odenkirk would have been amazing. And, you know, all the Dwight's we saw could have been a different version of it that happens in casting. And what you do have a lot of versions.
Angela [00:31:23] On the on the day I, I read, you know--.
Allison [00:31:27] I remember you standing up there in front of the camera and everything, I do, I totally remember.
Angela [00:31:33] Well Eric Stonestreet read that day.
Allison [00:31:36] Okay, good, yeah.
Allison [00:31:37] For Kevin.
Angela [00:31:37] Isn't that funny.
Allison [00:31:39] That's amazing. I probably have proof of that. Yes.
Allison [00:31:41] Yeah, it was on my sign in.
Jenna [00:31:43] A lot of people wanted to know who was the hardest role to cast. Was that Michael Scott?
Allison [00:31:50] I would say for me as a casting person, no, we had choices for Michael Scott. For me, it wasn't the hardest for me, it was finding a good Ryan or a good--It was the supporting cast that we didn't quite know if they would be sustained through the whole show like they were in the British office.
Angela [00:32:09] So filling out the world?
Allison [00:32:10] Filling out the world was actually tougher because for smaller roles, as you probably know from your early days in auditioning, it's really hard to be totally real and interesting and fun and just say yes and no. It's enough or no or it's yes.
Jenna [00:32:24] Or you have one. One line in your audition scene is one line. You're like, How do I stand out?
Allison [00:32:33] It's so much tougher. It's really hard. It's even tougher for us because you need to see what can be sustained in the background compared to how amazing they were on the British office. Still, I think the best comedy ever made is the British office, if I can confess that, I do. Other than.
Jenna [00:32:48] Allison.
Allison [00:32:49] I know.
Angela [00:32:50] Hey, wait. It's Office Ladies 6.0. She could say that.
Allison [00:32:55] You know because he invented it. But I would say that for me, the hardest was choosing all these amazing people from Groundlings and stuff and really bringing them forward and seeing what Greg could get out of them in terms of characters. I mean, the happiest day for me was when Ken Copus came up to me and said, Allison let Phyllis read with the actors. I want to see if she can do it. This was at the testing. Because I was reading with Steve Carell and stuff while they had the professional cameramen there taking it. And so Ken just came up to me and asked if I could let Phyllis read. I was like, Yeah, that be great. And he said, Maybe she could be in the background. I'm like, oh my God, yes. She'll get a day's pay. So anyway, she didn't know at the time that's what was happening. She did not know that Ken had spotted Phyllis as someone who should be on the show. So we switched to Phyllis reading and she read. Did she read with you?
Jenna [00:33:48] She read with me.
Jenna [00:33:50] She did. She then started reading with everybody in the room. And of course, she was great.
Angela [00:33:55] She read with me.
Allison [00:33:56] And she read with you.
Angela [00:33:58] So I think one of the things that helped me a lot was my first audition for the show was for Pam. Yes. And you and I can share about that. Yes. Right before I got the audition. Well, first of all, Greg reached out to me and he said, Ang, you've been doing improv for years. He had been to every show I had done, and I was one of the most annoying people who had three shows a week at some little theater with no parking. So I was doing all these shows and Greg came to all of them. He was so supportive and he was like, Angela, this is perfect for you. Because he had done a lot of projects that I had not gone in for because I wasn't right for. But he said, they don't want anyone with credits. I'm like thanks, Greg. Any well-known people. They want people who can, you know. He goes, I want someone who's good on their feet and can improvise. And and he was like, So I want you to come in. But here's the deal. No one can know we're related. It will only hurt your chances. And I was like, okay, great. And then I went in and I'm in a little tiny lobby room. Tiny, tiny little room. It was The Bungalow. Yeah. And it was me and Kathryn Hahn sitting across from each other. And I was like sh*t.
Allison [00:35:05] We had famous people on that couch. I recall it was a small, crappy little couch.
Angela [00:35:09] And she was so lovely and nice and. Yeah. And I went in and Phyllis was reading. And Greg was in the way, way back all the way against the back wall. And I finished my audition, and I felt really good about it. I was like, That's the best Pam I can do. Although everyone laughed when I called Michael a jerk and I thought I don't think people are supposed to laugh here, I think that's supposed to be a moment.
Angela [00:35:33] Was that in the fake firings?
Angela [00:35:33] Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, when I saw Jenna do it as Pam, and she, like, tears up when she called him a jerk. I was feisty when I called him a jerk. Yeah, but at the end of the audition, I was getting up to leave, and Greg, like, tucked his hands into his body so no one could see. He made, like, a little cave out of his body, and he did two thumbs up and, like, smiled. And I was like, well, if anything, Greg thought I did a good job, and that's enough for me, right? And then I got the call that they liked me, but they didn't think I was right Pam. Which is no surprise. And then two months went by and I got a call, and they said, We want you to come read for this kind of prickly lady in accounting. But you said to me, Don't wear any makeup. Don't try to look cute, like really an accountant in a small company. So I didn't. I didn't do my hair. I pulled it back in a low ponytail, and I just wore all gray because I was trying to see what do I have that looks businessy but I didn't really have anything. And I literally wore no makeup, no mascara and like a light chapstick, right? And went in and I had one line and I thought, that thing that you said, how do you make one line interesting? And then Ken, after I did my one line, which is, well, I think if they're going to fire someone, it'll probably be me. So that was my line. And then after that, Ken had me stay in character and ask me a few questions. And that's, I think what did it really was that they then they could believe that I'd be this character because they asked me something like, What do you think about Oscar? And I was like, Do you have a stapler that works? But you have to push it down. It doesn't really always work. And I said something really boring.
Jenna [00:37:24] You said a stapler is great, but you still have to push it down.
Angela [00:37:28] Yes. Yes.
Jenna [00:37:30] That's what you think of him.
Angela [00:37:31] Yeah. So I improvised that and then. Yeah, but you have a whole other side to that story.
Allison [00:37:37] Yes. When we wanted to get you approved to play the role. By that time, I did know that you were a relative of.
Angela [00:37:44] You didn't know at first.
Allison [00:37:45] I did not know, no. Gregg, though, to his credit, he brought in all of his Simpsons writer friends to audition. And I was blown over by how cool and weird these comedy guys were because everybody in comedy writing seems to start as a performer. It seems that way. Greg did not. I'm guessing he did not.
Jenna [00:38:01] I don't think he did, no.
Allison [00:38:03] But I said, I think we have to have a plan. Nobody can say that Angela is part of Greg's, is an in-law, is a sister in law. So Phyllis and I, Phyllis being before times Phyllis, we said, okay, we're just going to talk about her and try to get her approved, but we nobody can ever mention that she's a relative or that Greg is actually super familiar with her comedy and her style. So when it came time to discuss you, Greg started throwing up all these roadblocks and, like, practically blew it. Yeah, he practically blew it. And so Phyllis and I were like, we love her, she's great. She's not like any other female on the show. She's not like Pam. And somehow we got you approved, but Greg was testing us or something.
Allison [00:38:47] But Greg, like when I asked him about it, he was like, I couldn't give it away. I had to like, be.
Jenna [00:38:53] He had to be, like, very skeptical, like.
Allison [00:38:55] Well he was. He challenged us and Phyllis and I were like, he's blowing it. He was protesting too much.
Angela [00:39:03] Yeah.
Allison [00:39:04] However, you did not get it because you were related to Greg. You got it because you were really good. I would be the first to stop something that didn't work just because it was a relation, believe me.
Angela [00:39:13] Well, I believe that. And I also know that Greg wouldn't bring me in.
Allison [00:39:16] No, he wouldn't have.
Angela [00:39:17] Because he was very honest.
Allison [00:39:19] Greg was really good at asking improv questions, though. Very, very good at coming up with questions to ask actors that would let them just go for it. Yeah. Very smart. Yeah.
Jenna [00:39:40] So we've talked about you a lot on the podcast before, Allison, and we've had a lot of guests come on who are actors who were on the show, a lot of guest stars, and they tell stories about how you remembered them. I mean, I told a story today about how for five years you kept calling me in and we got fan mail about it.
Allison [00:40:00] Aw.
Jenna [00:40:01] Isabel H from San Luis Obispo, California, said. A lot of cast members have mentioned how you remember auditions and think of them for future roles. It's a testament to how special you make actors feel and how much you remember them. It's so touching. How do you store all this information and have this kind of recall? And then Kaitlin from Syracuse, New York, said, Please talk about either your seemingly photographic memory or your amazing filing system. So many times we have heard actors or guest actors talked about how you remembered them and called them up for a role when it was right for them. How on earth do you keep track of so many people?
Allison [00:40:44] We had memories. We had an actual memory, not a digital memory. For me and for--I will again speak for all my colleagues in casting. If we meet somebody that we think is special or gives a good audition, you cannot wait to bring them again to get them a part. And sometimes that takes 40 auditions before they get something and you have to just keep bringing them in and bringing them in. But the memory part comes to probably me being old when my brain worked. And you do remember because it's what we do. We do remember somebody who gives a great audition or somebody you bump into and say, I'm glad I bumped into him. I got to bring him in for this gathering from that role. And that's a big part of casting, I think, because what makes you like casting and what makes me like casting is getting the right person for the right role. The remembering part comes from auditioning so many people. And certainly I would write down something. Remember him for somebody who's grumpy, you remember, because this guy was great, this, that and the other thing or. And then you just keep bringing people in. So all the casting people do that. We just see someone we love and we can't wait to get them a job. And there's also we talk with each other all the time. We're like, You got to meet this person. This person was fabulous. We just have to remember, because that is part of our job. And also, again, frankly, 30 years ago, you did have a better memory in your own brain than you do now digitally. I mean, I still am not I have no filing system at all. I look at my old audition sheets. I look at my old auditions. If somebody is especially good people I've met recently that I didn't know, wonderful standup name Cat Cohen. I can't wait to get her a really great, great job because she's so good and everybody I know will love her, am I allowed to say that?
Jenna [00:42:23] Yes, she'll be thrilled.
Allison [00:42:24] She's pretty famous in the standup world. So when I see someone come along and I know that person is effing fabulous, I will not stop until I get them something good. And at my early days, the office, early days, it was Kristen Schaal. People like that. It was Jenna Fischer It was just those people you had to work. Neil Casey, Zach Woods Aubrey, just had to meet them and you're like, I got to get them in, got to meet, Mike Schur, gotta meet Greg Daniels because that is my job. And it's also, thank God, what I like about it. So for whatever proclivity I have for actors and comedy people and people who make me laugh and people who are clearly very talented may be better at drama than comedy, blah, blah, blah, blah. We remember them because we like them and we can focus on that. You know, it's a whole discussion about how memory works, but still, I do not have any kind of digital anything now I don't watch. I should, but I don't watch enough Tik-tok or YouTube or anything like that. I sort of remember visually as well I think I remember visually to get technical. Yeah, yeah.
Jenna [00:43:29] Do you also go to see Groundlings shows or UCB Shows?
Allison [00:43:32] Yes, not as much as I used to! I never per se went scouting, but I mean, as I'm here, scouting or anything like that for agents have to do, sometimes they go to an industry night and they see if they should sign certain people or whatever. We also have a network of comedy managers who need to get more credit than they ever get. I didn't discover anybody. The comedy manager discovered that person before I brought them in. You know, Christy Smith discovered Charlie New Jimmy Miller discovered everybody. Dave, Becky, Dave Miner. They discovered all these people and brought them up from nothing and encouraged them and put together these shows with them. And all the greats are with all these unbelievable comedy managers. So I give them all the credit for doing the discovering.
Jenna [00:44:19] Well, that's how I feel about Naomi.
Allison [00:44:21] Naomi. I mean, everybody she signs ends up on SNL. Yeah.
Jenna [00:44:25] Kristen Wiig.
Allison [00:44:27] Yep, exactly. So for whatever reason, whatever thing we have in our brains that makes us focus on, I mean, we can visually and hear people in our brains, maybe real psychos, I don't know. But but whatever that is, comedy managers need to have a lot more credit to do. They get credit? I don't know. I don't even know. But I always say I didn't discover a soul. They all came from these great managers and agents. And then slowly improv comedy kind of got a presence in the comedy world and we would bring those people in to audition.
Angela [00:44:58] Let's see, we have a question here from Kimberly Ness from Rochester, Minnesota, writes in and says, Allison, what was your all time favorite episode of The Office and why?
Allison [00:45:08] Wow.
Jenna [00:45:11] I mean, it could be as a fan or from a casting perspective. Yes.
Allison [00:45:15] Well, it would be both. My all time favorite episode and probably as a fan was the basketball one when Stanley was bouncing the basketball and he couldn't do it that episode. And I think I went to the set that day, so I saw a little bit of it. So that had to be my all time favorite episode. It's not everybody else's favorite episode.
Angela [00:45:35] That's one of ours.
Allison [00:45:36] It is? That's a pretty great episode. And also, Phyllis' wedding, for obvious reasons, because it was Phyllis and she was so good. And also Jim and Pam's wedding for sure. And then you came dancing down the aisle like that. That YouTube video. Yeah, they took that from the YouTube video.
Jenna [00:45:51] They did.
Allison [00:45:51] Yeah, so that was pretty cool. I think those were my favorite episodes for sure.
Angela [00:45:56] Well, Allison, we just got so much mail for you because our fans just adore you and the work that you've done on creating The Office and so many of their favorite shows. So I wanted to read you this. This is from Brenna C in New York. Hi, Allison. Not a question, but just wanted to say how much of an impact you have had on the television industry throughout the years. It is so comforting and delightful to be watching a sitcom from a decade within the last 30 plus years and see your name pop up. You have been directly responsible for the most beloved characters on our screens, and that does not go unnoticed by fans.
Allison [00:46:32] That's so nice.
Angela [00:46:33] Anyone who knows TV knows Allison Jones. We see you and we appreciate you. Thank you for taking chances on people who are trying to live their dreams because it makes dreams real for millions of people from that point on.
Allison [00:46:48] Thank you, Brenna.
Angela [00:46:49] Isn't that so nice?
Allison [00:46:50] Yes. That's amazing. Yes. Thank you so much.
Angela [00:46:54] And we got a lot of letters like that.
Allison [00:46:56] That's incredible.
Angela [00:46:57] Yeah.
Jenna [00:46:58] I mean, for me, Allison, I was out here for eight years, and you were the casting director that kept calling me back. I just needed you really to believe in me and give me that access to those parts. And that is what changed my life. But it also kept me going. I mean, just the fact that every 6 or 7 months, Allison Jones would call with a a part for me, maybe it was just a guest star, maybe it was a new pilot. That was why I wasn't flying back home to St Louis and giving up, was because my phone would ring and you would bring me in.
Allison [00:47:40] Right.
Jenna [00:47:41] And I so appreciate you.
Allison [00:47:43] You're so welcome. And also, I'm so you're both so good at this this podcast thing. It's quite amazing.
Angela [00:47:49] Thank you.
Allison [00:47:51] But I would say that that is a large amount of faith that we have in people and in actors. And what I wanted when actors ask about what's the thing that you can advise actors on or what is the one word you have for actors? And I say tenacity. Faith for the people who have to choose you. Leap of faith for the people who have to choose you and for actors, tenacity. So many actors. God bless him. Ken Jeong. I brought him in so many times for Curb. He finally got a curb. He finally got an office. And now Ken is doing okay. But yes, we we have faith and you have to have the tenacity. So that is the big story of many successful, successful actors. I think having the tenacity.
Jenna [00:48:37] My acting coach, he used to say success is opportunity meets readiness.
Allison [00:48:43] Yes.
Jenna [00:48:44] You can't control the opportunities. But you can control the readiness. So you just be ready for when Allison Jones calls. Basically, you're the opportunity piece.
Allison [00:48:55] Good. Thank you very much.
Jenna [00:48:56] And, you know, I just try to always be ready. And he also said the key is building a consistent body of work. Yes. So that every time and he would literally use your name because you were the casting director that was calling. He would say, every time Allison calls, you are ready and you show her a consistent body of work. And if you do those two things eventually, eventually, the right fit will find you.
Allison [00:49:25] Right. My first boss, to whom I owe everything. The late Judith Wiener. Anyway, I owe her everything in terms of any kind of casting theory. But she used to always say there is one perfect part for every actor. So I believe that. She said there's one perfect part for every actor. Keep bringing them in. Yeah.
Angela [00:49:44] Thank you for fighting for us because we know you did.
Allison [00:49:49] Yeah, we do. All the time.
Angela [00:49:50] We know we wouldn't be here without you, Allison. Truly.
Allison [00:49:53] Thank you so much.
Angela [00:49:57] I'll get choked up but--
Allison [00:49:57] Yeah. No, I would, too.
Angela [00:49:58] You changed our lives.
Allison [00:50:00] After I came back to the office, after interviewing with Greg and everybody. I remember saying to Phyllis, the before-times Phyllis. God, I hope I get this job. I think it would be one of the most important jobs I've ever had. This is this show is fantastic. It's the office, blah, blah, blah, blah. And little did I know it was more important for Phyllis.
Angela [00:50:19] Yeah. Yeah.
Allison [00:50:21] Hugely life changing and important for me. But at the time, who knew? Yeah. No. It was really important for Phyllis.
Angela [00:50:29] So amazing.
Allison [00:50:30] And for the people who make Inside Out.
Angela [00:50:32] Yeah.
Allison [00:50:33] How proud are we of Phyllis? She's amazing.
Angela [00:50:36] So amazing.
Allison [00:50:36] I was crying. Yeah. At that that you just said. Hi, Phyllis. So happy for Phyllis.
Angela [00:50:41] So happy for Phyllis.
Jenna [00:50:43] Well, Allison, this was absolutely delightful. Is there any memory or anything that we have not touched on that you'd like to share with our listeners? I'm going to look through our questions.
Allison [00:50:55] Yes. I would like to share-- you had a question there that you didn't ask. You had asked on the questions something about a special phonecall.
Jenna [00:51:05] Yes, here it is. This was my question. This is from Jenna F in Los Angeles.
Angela [00:51:13] Jenna F. writes in sometimes.
Jenna [00:51:13] Okay. Jenna said. I'm sure it's great to call and tell someone that they got a role, but you have to make a dozen other calls to tell all the other people that they didn't get the role. And what's that like?
Allison [00:51:26] Telling the actors they got the roles is the job, but mostly the managers and agents. So we have to call and tell the agents and the managers that their client did or didn't get the role. And the one I remember the most is you, Jenna Fischer, when you got The Office.
Jenna [00:51:41] Okay.
Allison [00:51:42] I, probably the worst call was having to tell Bob Odenkirk he didn't get The Office. But I was able to tell the people who got The Office, they got The Office. So I called up Michael Green.
Jenna [00:51:53] That was my agent at the time.
Allison [00:51:54] Your agent at the time Michael Green. And they always know what you're calling about right after a test. And I said, Hi, Michael. And the import of it hit me as much as it probably hit him and would have hit you. I said, I am calling to tell you that Jenna Fischer got the office. It's exactly what I said. And there were silence. There was silence. I think he was probably crying a little bit. I was even getting emotional because--.
Jenna [00:52:21] I'm getting emotional now.
Allison [00:52:23] Because for some reason at the time it hit me that that was a big deal for Jenna Fischer to get The Office.
Jenna [00:52:31] It was a big deal for me.
Allison [00:52:32] And who even knew at the time what would happen with The Office? Yeah, you know, so that is the one that I remember the most. I hate having to call. I hate making those calls. It falls on us, of course. God forbid. Over the years, I've had to call and actually fire actors from a set. It's awful. No, it's awful because people don't man up and do it themselves, you know, directors and things. They don't want to do, that kind of thing. So we get to do the dirty work. So what it's like is it's awful, but it's great to be able to tell an agent or a manager that their client got a huge role that we know will be life changing. And even the best are the small roles that will be life changing. When I get to hire somebody phenomenal for one line on Curb Your Enthusiasm and they're the ones who send bottles of wine and flowers, it's like, you're spending your whole salary and it's one line, but to them it's the start of everything. So that's what's the greatest part of casting is getting these people you believe in finally getting them the gigs and it takes so long. Jack Black used to come in for one line parts all the time and he killed it. And talk about a person who could kill one line. It was Jack.
Angela [00:53:39] Yeah.
Allison [00:53:40] And could kill in a good way. And when he finally started getting the parts, it was phenomenal. You know, the rest is history for Jack Black, but still probably a full decade of of Jack Black. But anyway, it's the small parts that are pretty amazing to an unknown people to get a part. You know that it's a joyful, wonderful thing.
Jenna [00:53:57] Allison, this was amazing. Thank you so much for coming in.
Angela [00:54:01] Yes. Allison, thank you. You had such a deeply impactful role in casting the Office, and I'm just so excited to share this interview with our fans.
Jenna [00:54:15] Well, I just loved that so much. You know, Angela, I realize we never even cracked open her three bins of stuff.
Angela [00:54:22] I know, but she said she'll bring them back any time.
Angela [00:54:25] We all laughed about it after we finished the interview. We're like Allison!
Angela [00:54:28] You carried those all the way up. My goodness.
Jenna [00:54:33] And I just love getting to see her in person. We've traded so many emails back and forth over the years of doing this podcast. And Angela, I know you ran into her recently, but I had not seen her in person in so long and it was so great.
Angela [00:54:46] It was it was just so wonderful. Well, thank you, everyone, for writing in with your questions. They were just terrific. And let us know who you want us to talk to next.
Jenna [00:54:55] And don't forget, on Monday, we are going to start rerunning our rewatch, starting with the pilot, and we have some really fun second drink tidbits for that one. We're going to pop on before every episode and give you some new thoughts and observations about those episodes.
Angela [00:55:11] And some new nuggets that we're finding. All right, you guys, we hope you had a great Wednesday. We will see you next week for more. Office ladies 6.0.
Jenna [00:55:19] See you then. Thank you for listening to Office, ladies.
Angela [00:55:31] Office Ladies As a presentation of Audacy and is produced by Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey.
Jenna [00:55:36] Our executive producer is Cassi Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Sam Keefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Babaeko.
Angela [00:55:44] Audacy's executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman and Leah Reis-Denis.
Jenna [00:55:49] Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.
Angela [00:55:51] Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.