TRANSCRIPT
Office Ladies | Episode 255 – Office Ladies Do Game of Thrones
Jenna Fischer [00:00:04] I'm Jenna Fischer -
Angela Kinsey [00:00:05] And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together-
Jenna Fischer [00:00:08] And we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office lover's podcast just for you.
Angela Kinsey [00:00:13] Each week we will dive deeper into the world of The Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories. We're the Office Ladies, 6.0.
audio cue [00:00:31] [Game of Thrones opening theme music].
Angela Kinsey [00:00:31] That can only mean one thing. Welcome to a day that I never thought would happen on our podcast.
Jenna Fischer [00:00:37] I never thought it would happen either, but it is Office Lady 6.0, and really anything can happen.
Angela Kinsey [00:00:44] So brace yourself because today it's, as Jenna titled it, "Office Ladies do Game of Thrones."
Jenna Fischer [00:00:51] Just 'Winter is Coming."
Angela Kinsey [00:00:52] Okay.
Jenna Fischer [00:00:52] Just the first episode.
Angela Kinsey [00:00:53] We're not going to go crazy.
Jenna Fischer [00:00:54] We're not doing all of Game of Thrones.
Angela Kinsey [00:00:55] Not yet.
Jenna Fischer [00:00:58] I'm holding out hope. All right, so here's what's happening today. We are gonna be discussing "Winter is Coming." It is the first episode in the "Game of Thrones "series. And for those of you who know the world, you know the series is based on "A Song of Ice and Fire," which is a book series by George R.R. Martin.
Angela Kinsey [00:01:15] And it was written for television by creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss. And this first episode was directed by Tim Van Patten.
Jenna Fischer [00:01:23] I would like to point out that Angela came dressed today in a Mother of Dragons t-shirt.
Angela Kinsey [00:01:29] Hell yeah, and you know, I have owned it for probably a decade. I also bought Josh a shirt that said "Winter is Coming" and we might've posed together in both of them holding our kids' Nerf swords.
Jenna Fischer [00:01:42] You might have?
Angela Kinsey [00:01:43] I might have.
Jenna Fischer [00:01:44] You definitely did.
Angela Kinsey [00:01:44] I definitely did.
Jenna Fischer [00:01:45] Well, lady, I am actually excited to dive into this with you. I did watch the first two to three seasons of Game of Thrones once in my life, and I enjoyed revisiting this pilot. Why don't we go old school, and why don't you give us a summary, lady? Maybe some fast facts?
Angela Kinsey [00:02:02] Let's do it. I know you normally write a summary, but I thought because this was my special show that I would tackle the summary. So here it goes.
Jenna Fischer [00:02:11] I love it.
Angela Kinsey [00:02:13] [speaking over the GOT theme] The Lord Stark is troubled by news of a deserter from the Night's Watch and the death of his friend, and Hand of the King: Jon Arryn. Meanwhile, King Robert Baratheon and the Lannisters arrive at the Stark home in Winterfell where the young Bran Stark climbs a turret and accidentally witnesses an incestuous affair between Jamie and Cersei Lannister, leading to his tragic fall/push by Jamie Lannister. And listen, this was a very far fall. I mean, what the F, Jamie? Meanwhile, across the narrow sea -
Jenna Fischer [00:02:47] [laughing] That's part of your summary?
Angela Kinsey [00:02:48] Yes, it is.
Jenna Fischer [00:02:48] A little sidebar?
Angela Kinsey [00:02:50] It is.
Jenna Fischer [00:02:50] I like an Angela summary. It has some spice.
Angela Kinsey [00:02:53] Meanwhile across the Narrow Sea, Viserys Targaryen brokers a marriage deal between his sister Daenerys and Khal Drogo of the Dothraki. He's trying to secure an army to reclaim the Iron Throne and let's not forget, winter is coming and we've witnessed our first White Walker.
Jenna Fischer [00:03:14] It's true. I have some questions, and maybe I'll pose the first one now.
Angela Kinsey [00:03:21] Okay.
Jenna Fischer [00:03:21] This iron throne that that brother is after,
Angela Kinsey [00:03:24] Yeah, Viseryus.
Jenna Fischer [00:03:26] That's not the King of the Lord's place. What's it called?
Angela Kinsey [00:03:32] The King of The Lord's Place?
Jenna Fischer [00:03:33] The, what's it called, there's Winterfell and then there's the House of -
Angela Kinsey [00:03:36] The Red Keep.
Sam [00:03:37] Westeros?
Angela Kinsey [00:03:38] Westeros? King Robert Baratheon?
Jenna Fischer [00:03:41] Yeah. Where's he live?
Angela Kinsey [00:03:42] That's his throne.
Jenna Fischer [00:03:43] Oh, so he is trying to get the throne.
Angela Kinsey [00:03:46] Yes. From Robert.
Jenna Fischer [00:03:48] Okay, there's only one throne.
Angela Kinsey [00:03:50] Yes.
Jenna Fischer [00:03:50] Okay I was a little bit confused. There's one throne. It's called Game of Thrones.
Angela Kinsey [00:03:56] I know, I know.
Jenna Fischer [00:03:56] So I thought maybe there were several thrones in play.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:02] Well, castles have their thrones, but this is the big mama-jamma. Of Thrones.
Jenna Fischer [00:04:06] Got it.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:06] That's why later we'll get to it, robert is worried about this Targaryen gal getting married to the Dothraki.
Jenna Fischer [00:04:13] I missed that.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:14] [laughing] OK.
Jenna Fischer [00:04:14] I missed to that.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:15] That's not a good sign. OK,
Jenna Fischer [00:04:18] All right, go on.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:18] I do want to give a cast shout out. There are 43 cast members in this first episode. They're all phenomenal. It's an amazing group of actors. I'm not going to list them all, because there's 43, and we'd be here.
Jenna Fischer [00:04:31] That's a lot, yeah.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:31] But if anyone wants to know an actor's name, as we're going through this breakdown, I have the full pilot cast list. Should you say, "Ange, who played that role?" I can tell you.
Jenna Fischer [00:04:39] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:40] Okay, now let's get into some fast facts.
Jenna Fischer [00:04:42] I can't wait.
Angela Kinsey [00:04:43] Fast fact number one: according to Ranker.com, this Game of Thrones pilot that aired on April 17th, 2011 is (as of January, 2025, that's this year) still considered the number one television pilot ranked by fans. That's kind of amazing.
Jenna Fischer [00:05:03] Oh, that is really amazing.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:04] Are you curious to hear the top five?
Jenna Fischer [00:05:06] I am.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:07] Good, because -
Jenna Fischer [00:05:08] Are you gonna tell me?
Angela Kinsey [00:05:09] Yes. Do you have other thoughts? You paused, you looked off to the side.
Jenna Fischer [00:05:13] I have a personal favorite pilot episode of a show. It's Breaking Bad.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:18] [stammers]
Jenna Fischer [00:05:19] Is it on the list?
Angela Kinsey [00:05:20] Would you let me do the list, lady?
Jenna Fischer [00:05:22] Yes, I'm curious.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:23] OK, I was going to say, wait and see if it's on the list. OK, here are the top five pilots on Ranker.com. Number one: Game of Thrones. Number two: The Walking Dead. I would agree that is a very good pilot. I don't even like zombie stuff, but I watched that pilot and I was like, "Dang, that was good.".
Jenna Fischer [00:05:40] OK.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:41] Number three: Breaking Bad.
Jenna Fischer [00:05:43] OK, OK.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:44] Very good pilot. Number four: Lost. I would agree.
Jenna Fischer [00:05:47] Really good.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:48] Really good, scared the crap out of me. Number five: The Simpsons.
Jenna Fischer [00:05:53] Huh, only one comedy on the list.
Angela Kinsey [00:05:55] Yeah, so yes, the pilot performed very well and the show was a hit, but there was soon to be some online snobbery.
Jenna Fischer [00:06:03] Oh, was it book people versus show people because it was based on a book?
Angela Kinsey [00:06:04] Well there's lots of that. There's a very funny meme that's like, "the people that read the book can't wait to tell you they read the books.".
Jenna Fischer [00:06:13] [laughing] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:06:14] But the one that got me tickled and cracked me up because I thought it was really spot on was, and I printed one to show you and I'll share it in stories - So for all the thousands of people who loved Game of Thrones and were watching it, in every friend group there was that one person that was so proud of themselves. They would say, "I'm not watching it. I'm not watching it." Look at this meme, each episode came out every week so this was one of the memes I saw one week that cracked me up: it said "only one more week until people who don't watch Game of Thrones tell everyone they don't watch Game Of Thrones.".
Jenna Fischer [00:06:46] That's very funny.
Angela Kinsey [00:06:47] Come on, that's funny.
Jenna Fischer [00:06:48] That was me.
Angela Kinsey [00:06:49] That was you. OK, moving on to fast fact number two. And I should say, Jenna is going to do fast fact three.
Jenna Fischer [00:06:55] I am.
Angela Kinsey [00:06:56] Yeah, fast fact number two: I call this Locations and a Trailer.
Jenna Fischer [00:07:00] Locations, and a trailer.
Angela Kinsey [00:07:02] It's got a title, my fast fact. The "Winter is Coming" episode was filmed in several locations in Iceland and Northern Ireland. Specifically Iceland's icy landscapes and dramatic scenery that were used to portray the harsh conditions north of The Wall. Where the threat of the White Walkers was.
Jenna Fischer [00:07:21] Yeah. Very snowy.
Angela Kinsey [00:07:21] Very snowy. And in March of 2011, HBO released the very first trailer for Game of Thrones. It's pretty long, but I thought we should hear a little snippet of it.
Jenna Fischer [00:07:33] Oh, okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:07:34] Get us in the mood.
Jenna Fischer [00:07:35] A mood, okay.
GOT Trailer [00:07:38] [dramatic music] Ned Stark: "I, Eddard of the house Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North sentence you to die." Deserter: "I saw what I saw. I saw the White Walkers." Ned to son: "You understand why I did it." Son: "It was a deserter." Ned: "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." [sword noise] Son: "Is it true he saw the white walkers?" Ned: "The madman sees what he sees."
Jenna Fischer [00:08:12] Fear and blood. A lot of suspense. A lot of great dialogue.
Angela Kinsey [00:08:16] Great dialog. "The madman sees what the madman sees.".
Jenna Fischer [00:08:23] Yeah.
Angela Kinsey [00:08:24] And you must have loved that one about the man who makes the sentence has to swing the sword.
Jenna Fischer [00:08:31] Why would, how did you know I liked that?
Angela Kinsey [00:08:33] Because it's kind of edgy.
Jenna Fischer [00:08:35] It is, it has an edge.
Angela Kinsey [00:08:37] What one man can do, another can't.
Jenna Fischer [00:08:39] Yeah, yeah.
Angela Kinsey [00:08:40] I felt it for you there. Well, you guys, those are the end of my Fast Facts. We have a bunch of fun stuff we're gonna sprinkle through. Jenna has Fast Fact number three, and you guys it's a doozy. Some real great behind the scenes stuff you're about to share.
Jenna Fischer [00:08:53] Yeah, I was so impressed with the cast of Game of Thrones that I also went to IMDB to look at the cast list. Who are these actors that I know are now famous, but were really a lot of them made famous by this show. And while I was poking around, I saw that there was an episode before 'Winter is Coming.".
Angela Kinsey [00:09:12] The pilot before the pilot?
Jenna Fischer [00:09:14] The pilot, before the pilot. There is an unaired pilot for Game of Thrones.
Angela Kinsey [00:09:19] Yes.
Jenna Fischer [00:09:19] It was shot on film. "Winter is Coming" and the rest of the series was all shot on digital, but this original pilot was shot on film, like, a year before "Winter is Coming" came out. I became so curious about it. I was deep diving it and I guess it was not good.
Angela Kinsey [00:09:35] I love the quote by their friend that they showed the film to. Did you see the quote?
Jenna Fischer [00:09:39] Yes! Yeah, I mean, he basically was like, "It's garbage. It is a bunch of garbage."
Angela Kinsey [00:09:46] Yeah, he said, "Like, start over.".
Jenna Fischer [00:09:48] Yeah, exactly. So they did. They rewrote the script, and they reshot almost all of it.
Angela Kinsey [00:09:54] And they had to recast some people.
Jenna Fischer [00:09:57] Yes, two actresses dropped out. They recast the role of Ned Stark's wife and Daenerys.
Angela Kinsey [00:10:05] Hmm.
Jenna Fischer [00:10:05] One of the reasons that they had to almost completely reshoot that pilot that didn't air was because they did not recast the kids, and they were all a year older by the time they got around to reshooting. They had do redo it so that they would match. I guess a lot of creative decisions were reworked. For example, they changed the look of the White Walkers and how they acted. Also, the original pilot did not really include the incestuous relationship between the Lannister twins.
Angela Kinsey [00:10:40] Mhm.
Jenna Fischer [00:10:40] I guess it included that they were in a relationship, but it was not clear to people that they were brother and sister. So I don't know if you notice, in "Winter Is Coming," literally the first line that she says to her brother is, "Hello, brother." Like, we're gonna make this clear right away this time. I thought that was very funny.
Angela Kinsey [00:10:59] There's also a line, I think, where they're like, "That's Cersei's twin, Jaime."
Jenna Fischer [00:11:03] They really hammer it home this time. So that final scene is very, very clear.
Angela Kinsey [00:11:10] It packs a punch.
Jenna Fischer [00:11:10] I guess there was a book that came out. It's called "Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon," and it has all kinds of interviews from the cast and crew about this unaired pilot. I found a lot more cool tidbits. I'm gonna sprinkle them throughout when we break it down, but I just found it all kind of fascinating.
Angela Kinsey [00:11:26] Yeah.
Jenna Fischer [00:11:26] I can't believe that HBO gave them the budget to reshoot it. That shows how behind it they were. That does not happen in Hollywood. You do not just get to do over.
Angela Kinsey [00:11:39] A do-over, yeah. It just also goes to show how much they trusted their friend who they showed it to, Craig Mazin, when he was like, [noise of disapproval].
Jenna Fischer [00:11:48] Yes, Craig Mazin, who was in charge of adapting The Last of Us.
Angela Kinsey [00:11:53] I have to think he saw Pedro Pascal in Game of Thrones and was like, "Who's that guy?" Someday we have to watch the episode with Pedro Pascal. Okay, here's my wish list before we get into this. After we break this down, somewhere down the road, doesn't have to be anytime soon, I'll let you have a breather from Game of Throne, Jenna.
Jenna Fischer [00:12:11] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:12:11] I want you to watch that episode where we meet Pedro Pascal-.
Jenna Fischer [00:12:14] I'm in, I mean, done.
Angela Kinsey [00:12:15] Done, and then I also really want you to watch "The Red Wedding," because I think of all the episodes, that was the one where I was like, "Holy crap sticks. What is happening?".
Jenna Fischer [00:12:26] Don't a lot of people die in that?
Angela Kinsey [00:12:35] Well, it's not "The White Wedding."
Jenna Fischer [00:12:36] [laughing] Um, okay, but I do want to say that I know that Pedro Pascal has a horrible gruesome death in Game of Thrones. I saw an interview about it and I don't know if I can do that again. He doesn't die in the episode where he's introduced, right?
Angela Kinsey [00:12:51] No, of course not.
Jenna Fischer [00:12:53] My heart can't take it.
Angela Kinsey [00:12:54] Okay, well, we'll watch the one where you meet him.
Jenna Fischer [00:12:58] Where we meet him and I'll watch this Red Wedding business with you.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:01] Let's do it.
Jenna Fischer [00:13:02] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:02] Okay.
Jenna Fischer [00:13:03] Well listen, why don't we take a break and then when we come back, we are gonna do Game of Thrones.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:08] I can't wait. I texted Jenna when I was watching this and I said, "This is so ridiculous that this is my job. I am so happy right now."
Jenna Fischer [00:13:16] You're so happy, you've been smiling since I saw you today.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:18] I know, I know.
audio cue [00:13:18] [musical outro/intro]
Jenna Fischer [00:13:29] Alright, we are back and I'd like to bring us into this, Ange. When we watched "The Edge" together, you were really taken by the wind.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:38] Oh, okay.
Jenna Fischer [00:13:39] And you played me a lot of audio of wind.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:42] Okay.
Jenna Fischer [00:13:42] I was really taken with the sound design and sound editing on this show.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:47] It's fantastic.
Jenna Fischer [00:13:49] Absolutely incredible. I asked Sam to grab a clip of the opening one minute of sound.
Angela Kinsey [00:13:56] Oh, I love it.
Jenna Fischer [00:13:56] Let's hear it.
audio cue [00:15:07] We hear the sound of a large wood drawbridge being activated. There is the sound of fire, horse hooves and bootfall. We hear the sound of stone scraping stone and footsteps.
Jenna Fischer [00:15:07] You hear it, there's gates opening. There's the clip-clops of horses.
Angela Kinsey [00:15:12] It's a giant metal gate, and then they go into this dark tunnel, these three men from the Night's Watch.
Jenna Fischer [00:15:17] The torches flare.
Angela Kinsey [00:15:18] Yeah. Dark, icy tunnel. Then they get to another even bigger metal gate. That goes up. They come out of that, and you see that that gate is so dwarfed by the size of giant ice wall that it's built into.
Jenna Fischer [00:15:34] Well, I'll have you know that the sound designer for this episode was Andy Kennedy. And guess what?
Angela Kinsey [00:15:40] What?
Jenna Fischer [00:15:40] He won the Golden Real Award for Best Sound Editing Short Form Sound Effects and Foley in Television for "Winter Is Coming." He was also nominated for an Emmy for Game of Thrones. He left the show in season one, but in general, Game of Throne was known for its amazing sound design. It won multiple awards. Starting in season three, Paula Fairfield became sound designer for the show, and she is responsible for creating the cries of the baby dragon.
Angela Kinsey [00:16:09] [surprised] Ooooh.
Jenna Fischer [00:16:09] From like the ground up, she had to figure out what the baby dragons were gonna sound like. She and her team were nominated for an Emmy in 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, and they won an Emmy in 2015 and 2019, and now she's the sound designer for House of Dragon. So.
Angela Kinsey [00:16:27] I mean, this is a stellar group of folks.
Jenna Fischer [00:16:31] In the very f irst minute of the show, I am in, and honestly it's all sound design. I mean, it's like 90% sound design.
Angela Kinsey [00:16:39] It is really powerful.
Jenna Fischer [00:16:43] Pretty cool.
Angela Kinsey [00:16:43] Well, you guys, these three night's watchmen are now beyond the wall. They ride into the snowy forest, there are snow flurries. This is bad. Angela Hot Tip:
Jenna Fischer [00:16:55] What?
Angela Kinsey [00:16:56] If you are north of the Wall and see snow fluries, bad shit is about to happen. Leave immediately.
Jenna Fischer [00:17:03] Is that the winter that's coming?
Angela Kinsey [00:17:06] Winter is the White Walkers. They are one and the same. What?
Jenna Fischer [00:17:10] Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Angela Kinsey [00:17:11] Winter is coming.
Jenna Fischer [00:17:13] I mean, they kept saying it like it had a double meaning.
Angela Kinsey [00:17:17] Threat level midnight. Winter is coming.
Jenna Fischer [00:17:21] Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Angela Kinsey [00:17:22] Sam.
Sam [00:17:23] I love that you're just realizing this in real time right now.
Jenna Fischer [00:17:26] I literally just thought winter was coming. Just winter, and the first time I watched the show, I was like, "How much longer till winter? How do we not know? It's already snowy, is winter not now?"
Sam [00:17:39] Also, that's gonna get annoying as the show goes on. They reference winter coming for a while.
Jenna Fischer [00:17:44] No, I know. I know and I'm like, "It's snowing all the time, but winter is - What happens in winter?"
Angela Kinsey [00:17:50] The bad stuff.
Sam [00:17:51] Yeah.
Jenna Fischer [00:17:51] I guess so.
Angela Kinsey [00:17:52] I mean, for sure, some real hardship's coming your way and if you're north of the Wall, real bad. But anyway, Angela Hot Tip: you see snow flurries, get the heck out of there.
Jenna Fischer [00:18:03] Okay. All right.
Angela Kinsey [00:18:03] All right, now the men: they're deeper in the haunted forest. They're trying to investigate these reports of missing wildlings. Wildlings are the people that live beyond the Wall. They're kind of a ragtag group of folks, right?
Jenna Fischer [00:18:17] OK, like peasants, kind of.
Angela Kinsey [00:18:22] Eh. Like,
Jenna Fischer [00:18:22] I mean, forest people.
Angela Kinsey [00:18:25] How would you describe wildling, Sam?
Sam [00:18:27] Yeah, they're feral.
Jenna Fischer [00:18:28] Feral. Got it.
Angela Kinsey [00:18:30] They're wildlings, they're wild.
Jenna Fischer [00:18:33] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:18:33] In the world.
Jenna Fischer [00:18:34] Got it.
Angela Kinsey [00:18:35] So one of our night's watchmen, he sort of sees some smoke coming out of what looks like a camp area, and he gets on the ground and he crawls to it. And guess what? He is surrounded by snow flurries. Mistake, do not go there.
Jenna Fischer [00:18:47] But he does.
Angela Kinsey [00:18:48] He does.
Jenna Fischer [00:18:49] And he discovers a bunch of corpses arranged in a kind of spiral pattern in the snow. I have a fun fact about that.
Angela Kinsey [00:19:01] Let's hear it.
Jenna Fischer [00:19:01] This was a change from the book. The writers of the series added the idea that the corpses would be arranged in the pattern. In this script, they called it a "witchy mandala," and it was designed to send the message that the White Walkers were not mindless creatures. They wanted them to be established as beings that had a culture and a purpose.
Angela Kinsey [00:19:25] Mm-hmm.
Jenna Fischer [00:19:26] They thought it would make them scarier.
Angela Kinsey [00:19:27] It does, it does. It makes them scarier. Well, the night's watchman who discovered this, his name is Will. He is freaked out, he runs back to his other two friends and he's like, "Hey, there are corpses everywhere. This is crazy and we've got to get out of here."
Jenna Fischer [00:19:45] But he says he wants to run away. Why doesn't he want to run back to the Wall? Why not? That wall seems super safe. Is it because if he goes back to wall they're gonna make him go out again and fight whatever's happening?
Angela Kinsey [00:19:57] That I don't know. The other guy is like, "No we should go to the Wall and tell everyone."
Jenna Fischer [00:20:01] That's me. I'm him. Mhm. Yeah.
Angela Kinsey [00:20:03] But then at four minutes and nine seconds, there's this other night's watchman with kind of short dark hair. Anyone else think he looks like Matt Damon?
Sam [00:20:12] The answer to your question, Jenna, would be yes. They would make him go fight as a member of the Night's Watch.
Jenna Fischer [00:20:17] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:20:18] But wait a second. Can we get back to Matt Damon for one second?
Sam [00:20:20] I apologize, yes.
Jenna Fischer [00:20:21] I'm sorry that throughout this breakdown, you and Sam are gonna have to explain the show to me as well. I hope this doesn't become -
Angela Kinsey [00:20:29] No, no. That I don't mind. I just went down a rabbit hole that is the question "Was Matt Damon in Game of Thrones last night?" And I was not the only one that thought this, OK? Look at this. I did a side by side of the Night's Watchman. He was playing the character Weymar Royce. In real life, his name is Rob Ostler. Look at the side by sides.
Jenna Fischer [00:20:53] [laughing] Oh my god, that is crazy.
Angela Kinsey [00:20:55] There's a whole Reddit thread of like, "is Matt Damon in Game of Thrones?" This was a real thing.
Jenna Fischer [00:21:00] Has this guy ever doubled for Matt Damon? Like, has he ever played Matt Damon's brother in a movie?
Angela Kinsey [00:21:06] Not that I could find. He's done a bunch of series on BBC1. Look at that. Sam.
Sam [00:21:12] Yeah, that's pretty spot on.
Angela Kinsey [00:21:13] I mean, come on.
Jenna Fischer [00:21:15] Have Rob Osler and Matt Damon ever been seen in the same room together? Is it possible that Rob Oslar is Matt Damon? He's Matt Damon's British counterpart? Or how about this? Rob, tired of being pigeonholed into serious dramatic British work, took on the alter ego Matt Damon. So that he could become an action star in The Bourne Identity. But first he had to write Good Will Hunting with Ben Affleck. Wow, that's some real dedication.
Angela Kinsey [00:21:46] This is a long game con.Here's what's gonna happen.
Jenna Fischer [00:21:46] What?
Angela Kinsey [00:21:47] When I meet Matt Damon.
Jenna Fischer [00:21:48] Yep.
Angela Kinsey [00:21:49] I mean, I met him one time. Remember, he took wine off our table at the SAG Awards?
Jenna Fischer [00:21:52] I do remember.
Angela Kinsey [00:21:53] But if I ever see him again, you know what I'm gonna do?
Jenna Fischer [00:21:56] What?
Angela Kinsey [00:21:56] I'm going to yell, "Rob!".
Jenna Fischer [00:21:57] And see what he does?
Angela Kinsey [00:21:58] See if he turns around. OK, anyway.
Jenna Fischer [00:22:01] OK. Well, that guy, not Matt Damon, wants to go and see what's up. Bad idea, guy.
Angela Kinsey [00:22:08] Yeah, he's like, "We're going back," and Will is like "to where all the corpses are? Are you crazy?" Guess what? They go back and they're all gone.
Jenna Fischer [00:22:17] Yeah, there's not even a footprint in the snow.
Angela Kinsey [00:22:19] It's because they've all been made into White Walker zombies.
Jenna Fischer [00:22:22] Yes that's what happens after a White Walker kills you and dismembers you, then you get put back together into a zombie.
Sam [00:22:30] Are you just realizing this right now, Jenna?
Jenna Fischer [00:22:32] No, no, no. This I knew, because I will say, here is my comment on the opening of this show that I wrote down. This show literally opens like a horror movie. I mean, this could be the opening of any horror film. Dismembered bodies arranged in a pattern in the snow, and then the girl that was impaled on the tree is now alive and chasing a guy, and then the White Walker beheads a guy. This is literally a zombie movie. It's literally the opening of "Dawn of the Dead." It's the same thing.
Angela Kinsey [00:23:03] It's total zombies. But yeah. So the White Walker, once he kills you, then he can make you into a minion. Your eyes turn bright blue. But they do have a weakness.
Jenna Fischer [00:23:18] It's not clear to me yet.
Angela Kinsey [00:23:19] Yet. It's not clear yet.
Jenna Fischer [00:23:20] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:23:21] It will be revealed. So anyway, the White Walkers, they kill two of the Night's Watchmen: the Matt Damon guy and the other one who just wanted to go back to the wall.
Jenna Fischer [00:23:30] Yeah, "return to the wall" and "not Matt Damon" get killed. Will just runs off. He's running for his life and then now we have the opening credits.
Angela Kinsey [00:23:39] Yes. I do have a little GOT trivia for you.
Jenna Fischer [00:23:42] What's G-O-T? Oh, Game of Thrones.
Angela Kinsey [00:23:46] Sam, it's going to be a long day.
Sam [00:23:48] "It's G-O-T." Shut this down, this show's done. Wrap it up.
Angela Kinsey [00:23:53] We haven't even got to the opening scene. Okay.
Jenna Fischer [00:24:00] My brain was not made for these shows. My brain cannot follow these. What is that?
Angela Kinsey [00:24:06] I'm gonna throw a question out there for you.
Jenna Fischer [00:24:09] I'm too logical. All right, anyway. Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:24:12] G-O-T trivia, ready?
Jenna Fischer [00:24:14] Yes.
Angela Kinsey [00:24:15] Get this. The White Walkers had their own language. According to an interview with David J. Peterson (we've talked about him before on the podcast)
Jenna Fischer [00:24:22] He's the person who created Dothraki.
Angela Kinsey [00:24:24] That's right. He created several languages for Game of Thrones. And he had a White Walker language that was going to be called "Scroth." I'm quoting David J. Peterson here. He says, "It was actually going to be for the very first scene of the show, where the White Walker comes out and cuts the guy's head off." There are parts where you hear them kind of grumble and vocalize. But ultimately, Scroth was scrapped because according to Peterson: "I think ultimately they decided didn't want them to actually say stuff and even subtitle it. That might have been a little corny, honestly, for the opening scene of the show."
Jenna Fischer [00:24:59] I like this idea that they just, like zombies do, sort of telepathically communicate or just kind of operate in a different plane than with language.
Angela Kinsey [00:25:11] Well, this article went on to say that for season two, the sound designer created an ice-cracking sound that finally sort of brought this language idea to life. It's what you would hear right before you would see them or when they were around. So it's kind of like a language, but without any verbalization.
Jenna Fischer [00:25:33] Next up, we are going to go to my favorite place in Game of Thrones. It is Winterfell and the home of the Stark family. From my previous viewing, I remember just loving the Stark Family, loving Winterfell. I thought this is where I'd like to live. It seems pretty great.
Angela Kinsey [00:25:52] A lot of this was shot in Ireland. You love Ireland, you've been there.
Jenna Fischer [00:25:55] This makes sense.
Angela Kinsey [00:25:57] While we open on that same deserter, Will, he is running over a big green hill and closing in behind him are soldiers. And then we see in the horizon, Winterfell.
Jenna Fischer [00:26:08] Yes. The boys are practicing their bow and arrow shooting and the girls are practicing their sewing.
Angela Kinsey [00:26:15] Sansa's really good, Arya is not. You're gonna see your very first classic Arya side eye.
Jenna Fischer [00:26:21] Also, the hairdos on these girls would make Angela Martin swoon.
Angela Kinsey [00:26:25] So many braids.
Jenna Fischer [00:26:26] Real elaborate braids, especially Arya. Who, by the way, would rather be doing the bow and arrow. We learn very soon that she's pretty good with them. Much better than her brother.
Angela Kinsey [00:26:39] So I do have to point out, speaking of hair, an older man is going to approach the Stark family. Buckle in for some serious facial hair alert. It's Sir Roderick Castle. He is the master at arms at Winterfell. But he has these long white lamb chops that go down the side of his cheeks and then they meet underneath his chin and he braids them into a little ponytail. It's so crazy!
Jenna Fischer [00:27:09] I have a whole hair breakdown coming up.
Angela Kinsey [00:27:12] Oh good.
Jenna Fischer [00:27:13] I became a little bit obsessed with the hair on the show. I went on IMDB looking at all the people who did the hair the show, and there's like a dozen people whose job was crowd hair. There were so many people who worked on this show. The crew was humongous.
Angela Kinsey [00:27:30] I have, for later, a little bit that would piggyback off of that for the costume department. Ok, we're going to learn about the deserter: Lord Stark is notified about it. So he's like, "All right, I got to go chop his head off for deserting," and he wants his sons (even his youngest, Bran) to go. And Caitlin's like, "He's 10. He's 10, he doesn't need to witness this." And Ed's like, "He won't be a boy forever. And winter is coming." Not actual cold winter, just bad stuff.
Jenna Fischer [00:28:02] Right, and he needs to be ready.
Angela Kinsey [00:28:04] I do want to point out we have a super-kadooper stare down. Caitlin is going to peer over at Jon Snow.
Jenna Fischer [00:28:12] [gasps] I saw it.
Angela Kinsey [00:28:13] She does what I'm calling the "nose flare glare." She flares her nose at him.
Jenna Fischer [00:28:19] She doesn't like him.
Angela Kinsey [00:28:20] Doesn't like them.
Jenna Fischer [00:28:21] At all. All right, so we're going to be out in just the hills and there's a little spot where you can get beheaded. This is clearly their beheading spot.
Angela Kinsey [00:28:33] It's a tree that's got a divot in it.
Jenna Fischer [00:28:34] Mm-hmm.
Angela Kinsey [00:28:35] We have our very first long-named title speech. That's a classic Game of Thrones moment.
Jenna Fischer [00:28:40] Yeah, I know you love them.
Angela Kinsey [00:28:41] I love them, so I'm going to recite it.
Jenna Fischer [00:28:43] OK.
Angela Kinsey [00:28:43] Lord Stark, as he's about to swing the sword, says, "In the name of Robert of the House Baratheon, first of his name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, I, Eddard of the house Stark, Lord of Winterfell, and Warden of the North, sentence you to die.".
Jenna Fischer [00:29:01] Yeah.
Angela Kinsey [00:29:02] That's lot you have to learn. You got to get that right, as an actor.
Jenna Fischer [00:29:08] That's as hard as medical jargon, I think.
Angela Kinsey [00:29:10] Also just as Lord Stark.
Jenna Fischer [00:29:12] Yeah.
Angela Kinsey [00:29:12] What if he fumbled that right before -
Jenna Fischer [00:29:14] He beheaded the deserter?
Angela Kinsey [00:29:16] That would be kind of a womp-womp.
Jenna Fischer [00:29:18] It really would. How often does he have to say that?
Angela Kinsey [00:29:21] I don't know.
Jenna Fischer [00:29:21] Does he have to open every meeting with that? That's a mouthful.
Angela Kinsey [00:29:25] It is.
Jenna Fischer [00:29:25] Well, he does it. He cuts off the guy's head and Bran watches it, the little 10-year-old. He sees it. I had questions at this point, like: what do they do with the guy's body and the guy's head? They've come so far to do the beheading. How did they dispose of the body? The tree stump thing, it looked clean when they got there. Is that someone's job?
Angela Kinsey [00:29:51] It had some red, it didn't have -
Jenna Fischer [00:29:52] I'm not gonna get in the weeds about it. I did have a moment of curiosity. That's all I'm saying.
Angela Kinsey [00:29:57] I like where your brain goes. It's very sort of, like, chores list.
Jenna Fischer [00:30:02] Yeah! Like, who has to now deal with the chopped up guy? Because someone does.
Angela Kinsey [00:30:06] Someone does. And I'm telling you right now, if they were smart, they'd burn him. [singsongy voice] Spoiler.
Jenna Fischer [00:30:11] [gasps] Oh, this guy? This guy that was just beheaded? Will?
Angela Kinsey [00:30:20] [solemnly] All of the dead should be burned.
Sam [00:30:25] It's true. All of them.
Jenna Fischer [00:30:26] Okay.
Angela Kinsey [00:30:26] Anyway.
Jenna Fischer [00:30:28] Well, they're making their way back to Winterfell and they come across a giant dead animal. I'll have you know that animal, that stag, it was real. It was not a fakey dead animal. It had been dead for about two days and it was decomposing and all the actors talk about how it was really smelly.
Angela Kinsey [00:30:50] You know what? I read that the dad to all the Lannisters, Tywin Lannister -
Jenna Fischer [00:30:55] I don't know. Is he in this episode?
Angela Kinsey [00:30:56] He's not. But I read that he had to gut a deer, like, prep a deer for an episode.
Jenna Fischer [00:31:03] In a scene?
Angela Kinsey [00:31:04] He really did it. They gave him a dead deer that he practiced on and then another one that he did it for the scene.
Jenna Fischer [00:31:09] Why?
Angela Kinsey [00:31:09] I don't know.
Jenna Fischer [00:31:10] Unnecessary. You know what I just saw on Instagram that I was like, "Oh my god, we have to ask for this," you know how we always talk about when you have to eat steak or something like that in a scene and it just fills you up and it's hard to do take after take after take of eating steak. But what if there was a scene where you had to eat steak? This prop guy figured out a way to make a big hunk of watermelon look like a steak by putting on a smoky - I can't remember what he used. I think he used liquid smoke on top of it and then he painted it with a little bit of edible food coloring that was brown. It looked like a steak and then when you cut into it, the inside, it just looked really rare. I was like, "Oh my God, that's genius." And I bet that guy could have made a real convincing fake deer.
Angela Kinsey [00:32:01] Yeah. Probably. It's a lot of watermelon.
Jenna Fischer [00:32:05] [laughing] I'm not saying he should make it from watermelon. I'm just saying, like, if you can make a piece of watermelon look like steak, you could make a fakie deer to cut up.
Angela Kinsey [00:32:14] OK, anyway. We do see also a dead wolf, and it's got an antler through its neck.
Jenna Fischer [00:32:22] A dire wolf, I'm told.
Angela Kinsey [00:32:24] So the dire wolf and the deer, they kind of tussled and neither of them made it. But what we find are six little pups.
Jenna Fischer [00:32:35] Ned wants to have them killed! Ned's like, "Kill them.".
Angela Kinsey [00:32:39] Ned's like, "Hey. They're not going to survive without their mother." And then Bran really wants one. And Jon Snow was like, "You know what? They're the symbol of your house and they were here for a reason. And there's five of them, one for each of your children. They should each have one." Then Ned gives a very dad speech, where he's like, "You will clean up after it. You will take care of it. If it dies, you will bury it."
Jenna Fischer [00:33:01] Oh I wrote it down. What I wrote down was "has anyone written Ned Stark's book of parenting?" Like, is there a parody book? Because so far he has laid down the following wisdom: the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. You will train them yourselves. You will feed them yourselves. If they die, you will bury them yourselves." I have a feeling there's got to be some stocking stuffer-y Ned Stark book of parenting.
Angela Kinsey [00:33:30] I also like when he says "a madman sees what a mad man sees." That's just kind of like, "It is what it is. What are you going to do?"
Jenna Fischer [00:33:38] Yeah. That's right.
Angela Kinsey [00:33:38] Well, there is an extra pup. At first, we only see five, but there is a sixth one. It's the runt.
Jenna Fischer [00:33:46] Mm-hmm.
Angela Kinsey [00:33:46] And Jon Snow is going to get the runt.
Jenna Fischer [00:33:49] Yeah. Because he's not a real Stark.
Angela Kinsey [00:33:52] We're learning he's not a Stark. Not a full-fledged Stark. I do have a costume fun fact.
Jenna Fischer [00:33:59] Oh, what is it?
Angela Kinsey [00:34:00] This is from a great article on mentalfloss.com. You might have noticed that in these wintry scenes, these guys are all wearing these gigantic coats, right? Game of Thrones owes much of the credit for its characters' iconic looks to costume designer Michelle Clapton. She would oversee a team of anywhere from 70 to 100 costumers each season, because they had to have all of these costumes for so many actors. But...
Jenna Fischer [00:34:32] And they're not shopping for those either. They're creating this. Creating. Sewing.
Angela Kinsey [00:34:38] Listen to this. This is so creative. Clapton revealed that several of the show's luxurious looking capes and coats were made from Ikea rugs. She said, "We'd take anything we can, we'd cut, we'd shave them, then we'd add a strong leather strap." And following the share of hers, Ikea created a set of instructions for how to turn one of their rugs into a cape.
Jenna Fischer [00:35:03] That is brilliant.
Angela Kinsey [00:35:05] It is, right?
Jenna Fischer [00:35:06] I love it so much. I have a wolf pup fun fact.
Angela Kinsey [00:35:09] Oh, yeah?
Jenna Fischer [00:35:10] Okay, so, you know each of the Stark kids are gonna get a wolf. Sansa names her wolf Lady. Lady was played by a pup named Zuni who is from Malik Northern Inuit dogs. Sophie Turner, who plays Sansa, adopted Lady as her own pet when the first season wrapped.
Angela Kinsey [00:35:28] I know, I thought that was so cool.
Jenna Fischer [00:35:31] [disappointed] You already knew that, everybody already knew that.
Angela Kinsey [00:35:32] No! Listen, I was just a fan of the show, so I was like...
Jenna Fischer [00:35:37] Everyone knows Sophie Turner has her wolf.
Angela Kinsey [00:35:40] Not everybody knows.
Jenna Fischer [00:35:40] Everyone does. Sam?
Angela Kinsey [00:35:42] Sam, did you know that?
Sam [00:35:43] I did not know that.
Angela/Jenna in unison [00:35:44] [celebratory] HEYYYYYYYY!
Jenna Fischer [00:35:44] Boom.
Angela Kinsey [00:35:44] Hey, there you go.
Jenna Fischer [00:35:47] Well, I guess after season one, all live animals were replaced by CGI and I guess dead animals were replaced by real dead animals. Per your fun fact about the deer. But live animals became CGI after season one.
Angela Kinsey [00:36:00] That's good.
Jenna Fischer [00:36:01] I can take us into this next thing because we're now at King's Landing. That's the land I was trying to think of earlier, capital of the Seven Kingdoms. John Aaron, the previous Hand of the King, has died. Hand of The King was very clear to me; it's the King's sidekick. Kind of sounds like the person who does all the work while the King is drinking and having fun.
Angela Kinsey [00:36:20] Yes, it's his counselor person.
Jenna Fischer [00:36:23] Yeah, we see a shot of John Aaron and he's dead and he has rocks on his eyes and the rocks have eyes painted on them. I became curious. I know this show is made up, but it seems to be a type of Medieval alternate reality. I wondered if this was based on anything.
Angela Kinsey [00:36:39] Well I know in old westerns they would put coins on the people's eyes.
Jenna Fischer [00:36:44] Do you know why?
Angela Kinsey [00:36:45] So the eyelids don't roll back and open.
Jenna Fischer [00:36:46] Yes, I guess your eyeballs deflate and then your eyelids can pop open. So you can put a coin or a stone on the eyelid to keep them closed, so it doesn't freak people out.
Angela Kinsey [00:37:00] Yeah, or they sew them shut for wakes.
Jenna Fischer [00:37:03] Well, nowadays they put fakey eyeballs in.
Angela Kinsey [00:37:07] So their eyes are open?
Jenna Fischer [00:37:08] No, no, no. So they stay shut. I believe it's a fakey eyeball. That's what it said: modern undertakers put fake eyeballs in place. It makes the facial contours look correct, per the website I read. Well, now we're gonna meet Jamie and Cersei Lannister. They're the twins.
Angela Kinsey [00:37:25] Mm-hmm.
Jenna Fischer [00:37:26] The minute I saw these two, I knew they were going to hook up. And then as soon as I heard they were brother and sister, I was even more sure they were gonna hook up. Like, I just knew it.
Angela Kinsey [00:37:36] We should say the Lannisters have a very distinctive look. They're all very blonde, very blue-eyed. The Starks kind of all have brown hair. There are these patterns in how these different groups look.
Jenna Fischer [00:37:48] Oh yeah, well the hottie brother and sister, they're both super good looking as well. They're gonna talk about the death of John Aaron.
Angela Kinsey [00:37:56] Mm-hmm, Cersei thinks Jaime should be Hand of the King.
Jenna Fischer [00:37:59] Yeah, but he does not want that responsibility. Their days are too long and their lives are too short, Angela.
Angela Kinsey [00:38:04] I know. That's some [sing-songey voice] foreshadowing.
Jenna Fischer [00:38:07] But you know what? He says he doesn't want the job, but then later he's going to get in this pissing contest with Ned Stark, who is going to offered the job and now his feathers are ruffled. But you just said you don't want it. So settle down, Jamie.
Angela Kinsey [00:38:23] Pick a lane.
Jenna Fischer [00:38:24] Right. What do you want? Beside your sister.
Angela Kinsey [00:38:28] Well, now we're going to see a raven, and it's flying towards Winterfell. It comes with a message. Caitlin Stark is going to make her way through this muddy courtyard to a very iconic piece of scenery.
Jenna Fischer [00:38:41] Is it the tree with the red leaves? It's so pretty, I wrote it down. I said "the production design is so pretty here."
Angela Kinsey [00:38:48] So it's a tree with a white bark. It's got these very red leaves, red sap. It is often found in the God's Woods; is what it's called. That's the forested area within the castle walls. Many of these trees have faces carved into their trunks and they're considered sacred by the followers of the old gods.
Jenna Fischer [00:39:08] Okay, well, it's beautiful. I was very impressed. So are you telling me that many important conversations are gonna happen at this tree, or trees like it?
Angela Kinsey [00:39:19] Yes, they're sacred and in some ways they are all-knowing and -
Jenna Fischer [00:39:25] Well, this is where Caitlin is gonna tell Ned about the Hand of the King dying. This guy was like a father to Ned, we're gonna learn. He is crushed. She also says, "You know what's coming next.".
Angela Kinsey [00:39:39] The Raven had more news. The king and queen and their whole entourage are on their way to Winterfell.
Jenna Fischer [00:39:45] You know what that means? They are gonna want you to be the next hand. Caitlin's like, "You can always say no.".
Angela Kinsey [00:39:52] She really wants him to say no.
Jenna Fischer [00:39:54] Oh, she's gonna make that clear.
Angela Kinsey [00:39:56] Now we're inside the Winterfield Castle. There's lots and lots of hubbub, because they're getting ready to host.
Jenna Fischer [00:40:01] The king is coming!
Angela Kinsey [00:40:02] Yeah, there's food prep in the great hall and we learn that Lord Tyrion's chamber is going to need a lot of candles because he likes to stay up late reading. And Master Lewin says, "I heard he drinks all night."
Jenna Fischer [00:40:13] Yes, this is the other sibling to the hottie brother and sister who are getting it on.
Angela Kinsey [00:40:19] And Caitlin says, "How much could he possibly drink? A man of his stature."
Jenna Fischer [00:40:23] Which is -
Angela/Jenna in unison [00:40:24] Foreshadowing.
Jenna Fischer [00:40:25] Also, now the Stark boys are going to get shaves and haircuts in preparation.
Angela Kinsey [00:40:33] So, a pre-requisite for this scene is that everyone had to be shirtless.
Jenna Fischer [00:40:34] Yes, I noticed.
Angela Kinsey [00:40:36] Everybody has their shirt off. Calm down, HBO.
Jenna Fischer [00:40:38] Also, don't get me started on the number of breasts we're going to see in this episode.
Angela Kinsey [00:40:43] Lots of boobs.
Jenna Fischer [00:40:45] It's literally the Benny Hill of drama. So many boobs.
Angela Kinsey [00:40:52] [laughing] I just love the Benny Hill reference.
audio cue [00:40:52] Benny Hill theme plays as Jenna continues
Jenna Fischer [00:40:53] I mean, that's what I thought of. I was like, "What is this?" Remember that show?
Angela Kinsey [00:40:57] Of course I remember.
Jenna Fischer [00:40:58] We all remember it from our childhoods.
Angela Kinsey [00:41:00] It was a comedy show with lots of boobs.
Jenna Fischer [00:41:02] It was on TV! It was comedy sketch show, and then just topless women.
Angela Kinsey [00:41:08] I know.
audio cue [00:41:09] Music stops and Jenna continues
Jenna Fischer [00:41:09] OK, the boys obviously didn't need to shower or anything before their haircuts because they also are kind of sweaty and dirty and shirtless. I noticed the writers think that this shaving scene is "the worst scene we've ever written and probably the most embarrassing."
Angela Kinsey [00:41:27] That includes the pilot before the pilot?
Jenna Fischer [00:41:29] Well, they said that the only reason it was there was because there were a few snippets that they did use from the original show and their beards weren't going to match. So this was designed to create continuity between their shaggy beards before and and their non-shaggy beards after.
Angela Kinsey [00:41:50] Oh, this was like a forced scene.
Jenna Fischer [00:41:53] It was.
Angela Kinsey [00:41:53] And HBO was like, "Make them topless."
Jenna Fischer [00:41:55] I guess so.
Angela Kinsey [00:41:58] Well, everyone is sort of watching the entourage of the King and Queen make its way. Bran has scaled up the castle walls. He's watching. I mean, this kid can climb. He's way up high. His mom catches him and is like, "Hey, no more climbing.".
Jenna Fischer [00:42:14] Foreshadowing.
Angela Kinsey [00:42:15] At 25 minutes and 35 seconds, as everyone is riding in with their red flags and the lion symbol (that's the symbol of the Lannisters), we see Prince Geoffrey for the first time. And one of my favorite characters from the series, the Hound.
Jenna Fischer [00:42:29] What's the Hound?
Angela Kinsey [00:42:30] The Hound is the younger brother of Sir Gregor, AKA the Mountain. The Hound is the personal guard of Prince Geoffrey, the Mountain protects the Queen. They're not really featured in this episode, but as someone who is a fan of the series: this is the Hound. You're seeing the Hound. Then, when the Stark family lines up (at 25 minutes and 58 seconds) for the first time ever, and he doesn't have a single word in this episode and you only see him here: it's Hodor.
Jenna Fischer [00:43:01] Oh, Hodor, I wondered when we were gonna see Hodor.
Angela Kinsey [00:43:05] Hodor's right there.
Jenna Fischer [00:43:07] I have a spoiler about this moment because what's gonna happen is that the king is gonna arrive. He comes in last.
Angela Kinsey [00:43:16] Mm-hmm.
Jenna Fischer [00:43:16] He gets off his horse. He walks over to Ned. He's like, "You've gotten fat." Then Ned kind of looks at him like, "Oh, so have you," and they laugh and they hug and oh, look, they're old friends. Then the king goes and he greets all the Starks. Here's the thing: I guess that when Robert greets the Starks, he hugs Ned, he hugs Caitlin, he ruffles Rickon's hair and he shakes hands with Rob. He does not touch Bran, Sansa, Arya or John Stark. Here's the thing: all four of the Starks that Robert makes physical contact with die violently in future seasons and the four that he doesn't touch survive. This strange coincidence became a popular theory that Robert has the touch of death.
Angela Kinsey [00:44:05] Oh, Sam. What do you think of that coincidence?
Sam [00:44:06] Jenna, I need you to watch every episode. I need this to continue for years.
Jenna Fischer [00:44:11] What is it that you need to continue?
Sam [00:44:13] There's just so many horrible, heinous things coming up.
Angela Kinsey [00:44:17] I'm replaying all the things. Yes. Like, she doesn't even know about Reek yet.
Sam [00:44:21] No. God, poor Reek.
Angela Kinsey [00:44:23] Poor Reek.
Jenna Fischer [00:44:24] Okay. Well, I know John Snow dies and I know he gets revived. I know because there were articles about it where people were freaking out. F***ing pissed off.
Angela Kinsey [00:44:35] Well, pretty quickly, King Robert is going to say to Lord Stark, "Take me to your crypt. I need to pay my respects." Cersei is like, "Um, hey, we've been riding for a month, my love. Surely the dead can wait." Robert's like, "Nope." Cersei's pissed. She's embarrassed. She's not happy.
Jenna Fischer [00:44:53] Well, we're going to find out why.
Angela Kinsey [00:44:54] Yeah.
Jenna Fischer [00:44:55] I thought he wanted to pay his respects to, like, the men who had fallen in his service. No.
Angela Kinsey [00:45:01] No, it's always about a woman.
Jenna Fischer [00:45:03] Yeah, he had the hots for Ned Stark's sister, who's buried down below. But wait, first, I need to go back to Queen Cersei getting out of the chariot, because all I could think about was, "Oh my God, I would be so queasy." She is so sour. She looks like she could throw up, truly, and it's no doubt that she is cranky. But also, did you know that Lena Headley was pregnant while filming this episode?
Angela Kinsey [00:45:28] No.
Jenna Fischer [00:45:30] Yes. That's why in so many of her scenes, she's either wrapped in furs or sitting down. Or like in the opening, she's totally you in "Dinner Party." In the opening scene when she's like, "Hello brother," she's leaning forward so that her robe would cover up her belly. Then at the end, when they're getting it on, she was origianlly gonna be naked. She couldn't be naked cause she was so obviously pregnant, so they had her clothed. Then I guess that started the trend where whenever Cersei has sex, she's always clothed. She's the one person we don't see nude in the series, apparently.
Angela Kinsey [00:46:06] Also, I have to imagine that much like Paul Feig, Tim Van Patten had to figure out how to have a sex scene and not see the belly, which is what we had to do with Dwight. Where do we put him to block it all?
Jenna Fischer [00:46:23] Okay, so now we're gonna go down to the crypt.
Angela Kinsey [00:46:25] Yes, and Robert is paying his respects to Ned's sister. He was clearly in love with her. He says to Ned, 'We were meant to rule together. If your sister had lived, we would have been bound by blood." Then he's like, "You know what though? It's not too late. I have a son. You have a daughter. Let's join our houses."
Jenna Fischer [00:46:41] This is also when he says, "I want you to be the new Hand of the King." He just says it. And I mean, how can you say no to that? This guy just rode for 30 days to personally ask you. He came with his whole family. I mean, this is a lot of pressure.
Angela Kinsey [00:46:59] And he says "I need you.".
Jenna Fischer [00:47:01] They're old friends.
Angela Kinsey [00:47:02] Yes! They're old friends.
Jenna Fischer [00:47:04] Did you think that these two guys looked slightly different in this scene, compared to the rest of the episode?
Angela Kinsey [00:47:09] Tell me why.
Jenna Fischer [00:47:11] This is one of two full scenes that were left over from the original pilot. It was also shot on film, so it looks a little different. The next scene coming up, this is the other scene that survived from the original pilot.
Angela Kinsey [00:47:26] Well, it's Tyrion Lannister. He's with a lady and getting serviced by the lady.
Jenna Fischer [00:47:34] He is.
Angela Kinsey [00:47:36] And Jamie bursts in and says, "Look, our sister is requesting your attention."
Jenna Fischer [00:47:41] This is when I got real interested in everyone's hair.
Angela Kinsey [00:47:45] This scene?
Jenna Fischer [00:47:46] Yeah, when I saw Peter Dinklage's hair. His blonde hair, they have clearly dyed all of the actors' hair. Because Lena Headley, as well, was kind of known for being a brunette, right? And now she's clearly wearing a wig.
Angela Kinsey [00:47:59] Because the Lannisters are blonde, so they tried to make Peter a blonde.
Jenna Fischer [00:48:03] I really felt like Peter Dinklage's hair in this scene had a hint of Ryan during Michael Scott Paper Company.
Angela Kinsey [00:48:10] Mm-hmm. It had a little hint of early 90s, SunIn by the swimming pool.
Jenna Fischer [00:48:15] Yes. I guess, like I said, this scene was from the original pilot and this was their first take on his hair. I guess in the book, Tyrion's hair is described as so blonde it seemed white. This is a wig. So for the pilot Peter Dinglage wore a wig, but by the final version they changed it to look more natural and you can see his hair change throughout the pilot. You can tell when it was wig and when it was different.
Angela Kinsey [00:48:39] Wig, no wig.
Jenna Fischer [00:48:41] Speaking of hair, because they became so obsessed, Geoffrey also had a different haircut in the original pilot. It was more of a page boy cut. It was kinda like Henry VIII. They decided that this more modern cut in the version that aired gave him a type of spitefulness without making him look so dorky.
Angela Kinsey [00:48:59] I see it.
Jenna Fischer [00:49:00] Yeah. Finally, before we leave this scene, I need to give an actor shout out to the woman who plays the sex worker with Tyrion. She was played by Esme Bianco, and she's gonna go on to be a recurring character. I remember her from the first time I watched the series because I thought she was so good, and I found this quote from her. She said, "I was originally cast and my name was the redheaded whore. I didn't have a name at that point and I was only meant to do this one scene." They ended up loving her so much that she became a recurring character and they named her Roz.
Angela Kinsey [00:49:34] She's in the series for a long time.
Jenna Fischer [00:49:37] I remember her.
Angela Kinsey [00:49:38] Well basically, Cersei wants Tyrion and Jaime to keep her company because they hate the Starks and they don't want to sit through this long meal with them. Then Jaime gets three more girls for Tyrion. I don't know what's happening here.
Jenna Fischer [00:49:50] He's like, "I know you, we're gonna get this all over at once. So just have like four ladies at one time and then please come to dinner. And make it to dinner."
Angela Kinsey [00:49:58] Right. Well, we're back in the crypt now, and Robert is just still talking about Ned's sister and just saying, 'Why did you have to barrier her in a place like this? She needs to be on a hilltop somewhere with sun and clouds." And Robert says, "You know, in my dreams, I kill him every night."
Jenna Fischer [00:50:17] Who's the him? Who's he talking about? He kills who? Is this who killed Ned's sister?
Angela Kinsey [00:50:23] Well, I can't answer any of this, Sam. I can't answer.
Jenna Fischer [00:50:28] Or you can.
Angela Kinsey [00:50:29] No, no, no.
Sam [00:50:30] Because you're gonna watch it.
Angela Kinsey [00:50:30] We're holding out hope. Here's the thing, though. Ned says, "It's done, Your Grace. The Targaryens are gone." Then Robert says, "Not all of them." Dun, dun, dun.
Jenna Fischer [00:50:42] Ohhhh, now we are going to meet some.
Angela Kinsey [00:50:45] We're going to go across the Narrow Sea to Pintos. We're going to meet Daenerys.
Jenna Fischer [00:50:52] Pentos. Just a made up place.
Angela Kinsey [00:50:55] This whole - Have you never watched anything that is written, like a movie? It's all fiction.
Sam [00:51:02] Everything is made up. The Office is made up.
Angela Kinsey [00:51:05] Dunder Mifflin! Oh, sure, that's a name they made up.
Jenna Fischer [00:51:11] I know, but paper companies are real. Scranton, Pennsylvania is real. The jobs we're doing are actual jobs.
Sam [00:51:17] There were kings and queens.
Jenna Fischer [00:51:19] [reluctantly] I guess.
Angela Kinsey [00:51:20] Yes.
Jenna Fischer [00:51:21] It's just so many names to remember, and places and lands and relationships. The fact that I was watching this pilot and I was following along with an outline that Ainsley made for me and I still was like, 'Wait, who's that?" It was literally printed on a sheet of paper for me and I can't hold it in my brain.
Angela Kinsey [00:51:43] This is learning a whole new world. Isn't that what happens when you read a book? Don't you learn a whole world?
Sam [00:51:48] Yeah, but she just watched Lord of the Rings so I'm sure her tank is pretty full of names and places. I'll give you that.
Angela Kinsey [00:51:54] Yeah, she's tapped out. She's tapped. Well, anyway, I have a little trivia about this scene.
Jenna Fischer [00:52:01] Okay, well all of that is to say I enjoyed this pilot. I think it's a good show.
Angela Kinsey [00:52:05] Okay, well, I do have a little bit of GOT trivia.
Jenna Fischer [00:52:09] Game of Thrones trivia, I'm keeping up.
Angela Kinsey [00:52:12] So apparently in the books, the Targaryens had silver hair and violet eyes and during shooting Daenerys and Viserys originally wore violet contact lenses.
Jenna Fischer [00:52:23] I read that.
Angela Kinsey [00:52:23] But the writers decided they impacted the actors ability to portray emotion so they were like nope.
Jenna Fischer [00:52:30] Smart. Here's what I am learning when I meet this guy.
Angela Kinsey [00:52:33] Viserys?
Jenna Fischer [00:52:33] Yep. So we've got another brother/sister relationship with weird sexual undertones. More than that though, if you are a man with blonde hair in the Game of Thrones in that universe, your character is very likely to be a creeper. Almost all the blonde men are total creepers.
Angela Kinsey [00:52:51] Okay, I'll track it in my rewatch. Well, he's a super creeper. He needs her to be perfect because he's going to be presenting her today to Khal Drago, who's very important in the Dothraki. He wants this union to go well because he wants his army so he can go and get his throne back, have a little foreshadowing. Daenerys is going to get into a bathtub and they're like, "No, no, it's too hot." She doesn't even feel a thing. She just gets right in.
Jenna Fischer [00:53:19] Yeah, I read that later she's gonna walk into a fire or something -
Angela Kinsey [00:53:24] [interrupting noises]
Jenna Fischer [00:53:24] I don't know, she can be hot, is what we know. Well in the next scene, we are gonna meet this Carl Drago person.
Angela Kinsey [00:53:32] Khal Drago. No, R.
Jenna Fischer [00:53:35] Sorry. Khal. I'll say it again.
Angela Kinsey [00:53:39] His name is not Carl.
Jenna Fischer [00:53:41] I'm trying. I am really trying, by the way.
Angela Kinsey [00:53:43] You are.
Jenna Fischer [00:53:47] We're gonna meet him, but why don't we take a break and I will learn the names and then we will be back to finish breaking down Game of Thrones.
audio cue [00:53:56] [audio outro/audio intro]
Angela Kinsey [00:54:06] We are back, and Daenerys is waiting for Khal Drago. I guess Dothraki are notoriously late. They run a little behind.
Jenna Fischer [00:54:14] Who's this helper guy? Who's the guy who's in his ear? The guy who introduces the brother and sister to Khal.
Angela Kinsey [00:54:23] He just works for them. I don't know.
Jenna Fischer [00:54:25] Okay, well I got an audio clip because he does the name and the house thing and I know how much you like it. So let's listen.
Angela Kinsey [00:54:35] I think you really like it too.
Jenna Fischer [00:54:37] I'm starting to like it. I wanna write my own, for myself.
clip from GOT [00:54:41] May I present my honored guests: Viserys of House Targaryen, the third of his name, the rightful king of the Andals and the First Men, and his sister, Daenerys of House Targeryen.
Jenna Fischer [00:55:00] The house thing. It's a big thing.
Angela Kinsey [00:55:03] I wrote one for you, do you remember?
Jenna Fischer [00:55:05] I don't, you did?
Angela Kinsey [00:55:07] I did, lady, for your birthday one year. I posted on Office Ladies' Pod, and I wrote my version of your Game of Thrones title.
Jenna Fischer [00:55:16] Oh!
Angela Kinsey [00:55:18] [GOT theme plays and Angela speaks] Jenna of House Fisher, the first of her name, the Summary Master, Queen of the Fast Facts, Protector of the Chucket, Lady Regent of Whiffleball, Maker of Bread, Stringer of Cheese, Commander of the Hockey Moms, Keeper of SunnyCat and Mother of Podcasting. [GOT theme ends]
Jenna Fischer [00:55:38] [laughing] I love it! It's so great!
Angela Kinsey [00:55:42] And I wrote one for myself.
Jenna Fischer [00:55:44] You did? Where's that one?
Angela Kinsey [00:55:48] Let's see. It's because I walk through my house and I pick up all the cups and bowls. I'm that person. We have three kids. There's cups and bowl and all kinds of things. I just walk and I pick them up.
Jenna Fischer [00:55:57] I am familiar.
Angela Kinsey [00:55:58] So I had my daughter take a picture of me on one of these errands of picking up cups and bowls and then I wrote this for myself: CupsKinsey of House Clutter. First of her name. Keeper of the mess, protector of the bowls and cups left behind, mother of stacking items and queen of making only one trip to retrieve everything.
Jenna Fischer [00:56:22] [laughing] These are great, Ange!
Angela Kinsey [00:56:26] I mean, I love them.
Jenna Fischer [00:56:28] Well, I don't know if you know this, but Screen Rant did a breakdown of what houses different Office characters might come from.
Angela Kinsey [00:56:35] Oh, really? I didn't know this.
Jenna Fischer [00:56:38] So I only pulled the ones that made sense based on having just watched the pilot because they listed a lot of houses that didn't make sense to me. But they said that both Jim Halpert and Michael Scott were House Stark. Do you agree with that?
Angela Kinsey [00:56:55] [sounds of hesitance]
Jenna Fischer [00:56:55] Here's what they said about Jim: "Sure, sometimes Jim will goof off from time to time and pull elaborate pranks on his coworkers, but at the end of the day, he is the character that the majority of people at Dunder Mifflin look up to. He has a big heart, and he will do pretty much anything for the people he loves most. He'll make some mistakes along the way, but he's only human, just like the people of House Stark." And for Michael, they said "He is no stranger to slipping up and making cringe-worthy mistakes, just like characters in House Stark! Yet, like the Stark family, whenever the chips are down, they get right back up." They also said Michael Scott is the heart and soul of the series, and for that reason, he seems like a good fit for House Stark.
Angela Kinsey [00:57:38] Well, he does pull a lot of shenanigans that could have ended him up in the Night's Watch. I will say that.
Jenna Fischer [00:57:43] Oh, the Night's Watch is a punishment?
Angela Kinsey [00:57:46] Yeah, a little bit.
Jenna Fischer [00:57:48] I thought you volunteer. John Snow was like "I'm going. I want to volunteer." I thought it was like a monastery
Angela Kinsey [00:57:54] Yeah, but he doesn't have anywhere to go because he's not a Stark. So he won't have titles or land.
Jenna Fischer [00:58:03] Are we gonna find out who his mom is? It's a big mystery right now.
Angela Kinsey [00:58:05] Eventually. I guess when the writers were interviewing to do this job, they met with George R. R. Martin, and he kind of gave them a test. He was like, "who do you think Jon Snow's mother is?" And they made their guess, and he liked it. I don't know. Maybe he had a secret idea all along and they made the right guess. I dont know. This is what I read online.
Jenna Fischer [00:58:29] Very interesting. Who do you think this article said belongs to the house Lannister?
Angela Kinsey [00:58:38] Angela.
Jenna Fischer [00:58:38] No.
Angela Kinsey [00:58:38] What?
Sam [00:58:38] Ryan.
Jenna Fischer [00:58:39] Ryan and Kelly.
Sam [00:58:40] Ah, yes.
Jenna Fischer [00:58:43] They said that the Lannisters are all about keeping up with appearances and they're obsessed with their image.
Angela Kinsey [00:58:51] Well, I do have a costume catch in the scene. Daenerys has on this sort of very sheer dress. It's see-through. It's not hiding much. But holding the dress up on her shoulders are these elaborate silver, sort of brooches and they have three dragons.
Jenna Fischer [00:59:10] They do?
Angela Kinsey [00:59:12] Foreshadowing. Three dragon heads make up the brooch.
Jenna Fischer [00:59:15] Interesting. Well, Khal is going to ride up on his horse. Basically, he's just testosterone on a horse.
Angela Kinsey [00:59:24] He's played by Jason Momoa.
Jenna Fischer [00:59:26] Yeah, he has a long braid and I guess, in their world, if they are defeated in a battle they have to cut their hair.
Angela Kinsey [00:59:37] Yeah, cut their ponytail. His is really long. He's never been defeated.
Jenna Fischer [00:59:40] It's never been cut.
Angela Kinsey [00:59:41] Nope, never been cut
Jenna Fischer [00:59:42] Yeah, and he kind of looks at Daenerys and then he rides away.
Angela Kinsey [00:59:47] And Viserys was like, "Well, what happened? Where's he going?" And he learns that, listen, he must have liked her, because trust me, if he didn't, we'd know.
Jenna Fischer [01:00:00] And Daenerys is like, "Ugh. I don't want to get married to this guy. I just want to go home." Viserys is like, "Sister, where's home? We have no home. That's the whole point." He's so mean.
Angela Kinsey [01:00:09] This is what I'm calling a "major a-hole alert." He's like, "I'd let the whole tribe have their way with you, all 40,000 men. Their horses too, if that's what it takes." There is going to be a really good revenge scene for her with him.
Jenna Fischer [01:00:24] Oh, I think I remember it. It's in the first couple seasons. It was satisfying. Amelia Clarke, who plays Daenerys, she just leaps off the screen. She is so great.
Angela Kinsey [01:00:35] I know.
Jenna Fischer [01:00:36] She doesn't have a ton of dialog. She just emotes. She's so good. Did you know though, I was Googling about her - Did you know that she suffered two traumatic brain aneurysms during the filming of Game of Thrones?
Angela Kinsey [01:00:51] Yes. I know.
Jenna Fischer [01:00:51] Holy s**t. She was carrying around this secret medical issue.
Angela Kinsey [01:00:56] Yeah. Very scary, life threatening. I know.
Jenna Fischer [01:01:01] This is what's happening. Not only am I getting caught up on the plot of Game of Thrones, I'm getting caught on the private lives of all the people who starred in this show.
Angela Kinsey [01:01:10] It's a lot of life that happened. That's like The Office. People ask us about an episode and we're like, "Oh, well, this was also happening in my life at the time." Well, now we're back at Winterfell.
Jenna Fischer [01:01:19] Mm-hmm. Sansa's getting ready for dinner. She wants to know if Geoffrey's going to find her attractive. She really wants to marry him.
Angela Kinsey [01:01:29] She does. She says to her mom, "I want to be queen. Please, please, make father say yes to taking this job as Hand of the King. It's the only thing I've ever wanted." Oh, Sansa, oh Sansa. Sam, if we could go back in time and have a conversation with Sansa right now.
Sam [01:01:46] [sighing] I know.
Jenna Fischer [01:01:47] I mean, I saw Geoffrey for like four seconds on his horse and I know he's a total dick. Like every other Lannister.
Sam [01:01:53] Well, it gets so much worse.
Jenna Fischer [01:01:55] Oh, I know. I saw. I watched!
Sam [01:01:58] No, it gets so much worse than you can imagine.
Angela Kinsey [01:02:00] Forget Geoffrey. Insert absolute human walking nightmare.
Jenna Fischer [01:02:05] Oh, all right. Well, we're gonna go to dinner:
Angela Kinsey [01:02:09] Cersei has to sit there and watch her husband feel up a waitress. One of the wenches? A bar wench, not a waitress. And she's over it
Jenna Fischer [01:02:20] Yeah, she's so sour all the time.
Angela Kinsey [01:02:22] She's super sour.
Jenna Fischer [01:02:23] She is the Angela Martin of Game of Thrones.
Angela Kinsey [01:02:26] Very sour. Jon Snow is outside. He's not even in the hall. He's practicing his sword skills, and his uncle comes up. It's Uncle Benjen.
Jenna Fischer [01:02:35] So I just want to say I'm really proud that I followed this scene. Tell me if I got it right. Ned's brother, Benjen, is part of the Nightwatch?
Angela Kinsey [01:02:50] Yes.
Jenna Fischer [01:02:51] OK. But you just told me that you had to be banished to that. But he seems like he wears this with honor. Did he do something wrong?
Angela Kinsey [01:02:59] I don't know. Sam, do you know? What did Benjen do? How did he end up on the Night's Watch?
Sam [01:03:04] Uh... I don't remember actually.
Angela Kinsey [01:03:07] You want me to look that up?
Jenna Fischer [01:03:09] No, it's not important. I'm just really proud that I know that he works for the Night Watch. Jon Snow wants to work for the night watch. Benjen says, "Don't do it. You can't have a family." Jon Snow says, "It doesn't matter. I don't have family anyway," and then he goes inside. And then -
Angela Kinsey [01:03:27] Wait, wait. But we also find out why jon Snow isn't in the party. Caitlin doesn't want him there. She's so tacky.
Jenna Fischer [01:03:36] Oh, it's Caitlin?
Angela Kinsey [01:03:37] Caitlin!
Jenna Fischer [01:03:38] See, I thought I got this scene.
Angela Kinsey [01:03:40] You got so many components of it. But no, Caitlin don't want him around. That's another reason he wants to go to the Night's Watch, because he's like, "Caitlin has it out for me."
Sam [01:03:49] Also, I just looked it up, Benjen just signed up and joined.
Jenna Fischer [01:03:53] So you can also just sign up.
Angela Kinsey [01:03:55] You can also sign up. My understanding of it is that for some people it's like a calling, a calling of service.
Jenna Fischer [01:03:59] Well, Jon Snow is feeling the calling.
Angela Kinsey [01:04:01] Yes, but he also doesn't have a lot of options and he has Caitlin, who hates him. He's not going to inherit any land or titles or anything.
Jenna Fischer [01:04:09] Benjen's going to go into the party and then out of the shadows comes Tyrion. He says, "Never forget what you are. You're a bastard."
Angela Kinsey [01:04:18] "Wear it like armor, so it can't be used against you."
Jenna Fischer [01:04:21] And then he has that just heartbreaking line.
Angela Kinsey [01:04:24] Yeah, cause John's like, "What would you know about it?"
Jenna Fischer [01:04:26] And he says all dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes.
Angela Kinsey [01:04:30] When you meet his dad, they are going to have a real rocky relationship.
Jenna Fischer [01:04:35] Okay, all right. Well, Benjen's gonna go say hi to his brother, Ned. Guess what? Benjen knew the guy that Ned beheaded earlier.
Angela Kinsey [01:04:45] He said he was a good guy, a true ranger. So now we've got talk of White Walkers. We have dire wolves south of the wall. Winter is coming, y'all.
Jenna Fischer [01:04:54] Why does no one believe that he saw the White Walkers? Like, why? Why do we just not believe him?
Angela Kinsey [01:05:00] Ned says they haven't been around for a thousand years.
Jenna Fischer [01:05:04] So if they're gonna come back, someone has to be the first one to see them.
Angela Kinsey [01:05:08] They're not gonna be believed at first. I'm telling you, that's how it works.
Jenna Fischer [01:05:11] So the first report of the White Walkers is going to get dismissed? How many more are going to be dismissed?
Angela Kinsey [01:05:17] Who knows? I mean, are there really aliens? I don't know. People have said they've seen them. Sam?
Sam [01:05:22] Honestly, yeah, that tracks.
Angela Kinsey [01:05:24] I'm really loving, like, having Sam because he's just such my Game of Thrones buddy.
Jenna Fischer [01:05:33] Okay. Sansa, Sansa [different pronunciations]?
Angela Kinsey [01:05:37] Sansa [correct pronunciation].
Jenna Fischer [01:05:37] I'm so sorry. Everybody's gonna hate me after this podcast. I can't get anyone's name right.
Sam [01:05:41] You're making such a valiant effort. It's very adorable.
Angela Kinsey [01:05:44] You are and there's gonna be so many people that are gonna be like, "Jenna. I'm with you. I don't know GOT."
Angela Kinsey [01:05:54] What's interesting to me.
Angela Kinsey [01:05:55] Is that you go a little bit into your fake voice that you do for your cats. Like your cat, Andi. So you go, [imitating the way Jenna speaks]
Jenna Fischer [01:06:16] Sansa is proud that she made her dress. "I made it all by myself.".
Angela Kinsey [01:06:17] Wait, I have an Angela Hot Tip here.
Jenna Fischer [01:06:19] What is it?
Angela Kinsey [01:06:20] Cersei is going to say, "Hello, little dove. But you are a beauty. How old are you?" Angela Hot Tip: if someone in the Game of Thrones universe calls you little dove, buckle in. Shit is about to go down.
Jenna Fischer [01:06:32] Really?
Angela Kinsey [01:06:33] Yes, it's gonna get real.
Jenna Fischer [01:06:35] OK. Well, she's 13. She hasn't had her period yet. Lots of personal questions. But then she wants to know if she made her own dress. And she's like, "I did," Cersei she is like, "You should make me one sometime." But it's all very "I'm scared. I'm scared of the queen."
Angela Kinsey [01:06:53] I have another Angela Hot Tip. If Cersei pretends to be nice to you, run. This is some Mean Girls BS. Remember in Mean Girls when she was like, "Oh, where's your necklace from? It's so fetch or whatever." That means she hates it. She thinks it's horrible. She didn't like her dress. Sansa, retreat.
Jenna Fischer [01:07:16] I have an interesting fact that I read that I thought you might find interesting, Angela. Which is that while most married women in the series take on their husband's last name, like Caitlin and Lisa Tully, who took the names Stark and Erin, respectively. Cersei Lannister, who is married to King Baratheon [mispronounced], did not -
Angela Kinsey [01:07:41] Baratheon.
Jenna Fischer [01:07:45] Jesus!
Sam [01:07:47] I'm watching Jenna shut down in real time. Her body's shutting down.
Angela Kinsey [01:07:52] Just say it like Andi, you're closer to the mark.
Jenna Fischer [01:07:59] I'm just going to call them how I know them. The queen, whose last name is Lannister, did not take her husband's last name. The reason for that is that the name of the house that currently holds the Iron Throne can only be inherited through birth. It is not given through marriage. So if Sansa marries Geoffrey, she would still be Sansa Stark. But her child would be a Lannister when Geoffrey becomes king, which is gonna happen really soon. I saw it. This king is not long for the world. Neither is Ned Stark, by the way.
Angela Kinsey [01:08:40] And neither is Geoffery, by way.
Jenna Fischer [01:08:43] Geofferey lasts a little longer. A little bit longer.
Angela Kinsey [01:08:45] Alright. Now we have the weird Jamie/Ned dick pissing contest.
Jenna Fischer [01:08:52] I didn't get it! I didn't get it, why?
Angela Kinsey [01:08:54] I don't know.
Jenna Fischer [01:08:55] He's the queen's brother. That's all he wants to be, is literally in the queen. He doesn't want to be Hand to the King, is it that he wants be king? That's what he wants.
Angela Kinsey [01:09:03] I don't know. The Lannisters, they just want a lot. So the dinner ends. Ned and Cat are in bed now and he tells her that he belongs up north with her and not down in the capital, and then they are interrupted. There has been a raven. There is a letter. Wait for it, 48 minutes and 43 seconds: our very first wax seal. We have a wax seal.
Jenna Fischer [01:09:29] We have a wax seal. It's been spotted.
Angela Kinsey [01:09:31] Caitlin opens the letter and all the color drains out of her face. It was sent from the Erie, that's where her and her sister are from and I guess her sister has fled the capital and gone back home because she says John Aaron, who was her husband, was murdered by the Lannisters and she says King Baratheon is now in danger.
Jenna Fischer [01:09:51] Yeah, so Cat takes the letter - I loved it. She goes over and she burns it right away. Oh, I wish we could still do that today. I know we delete emails, or you can delete a text.
Angela Kinsey [01:10:02] It's not the same.
Jenna Fischer [01:10:03] It's not. Throw it in an actual fire. You know what I would like on my phone? I would a button that's a tiny fireplace so that when I delete an email, it's like I'm throwing it in a fire. Wouldn't that be fun? I bet you would delete a lot more emails if you threw it in a fire, lady.
Angela Kinsey [01:10:19] Yeah, or if there was some sound effect. Like if I got satisfaction if I clicked on it.
Jenna Fischer [01:10:25] We could make a lot of money with this idea, I'm just saying and we could even maybe try to link it to Game of Thrones. It could be the GOT fire and that's where you throw all the stuff you don't want
Angela Kinsey [01:10:36] Maybe it's just a dragon that burns your shit up.
Jenna Fischer [01:10:40] Oh yeah, dragon fire. Well, that's if you really wanna burn it.
Angela Kinsey [01:10:44] Why wouldn't you really want to burn it? I'm getting rid of stuff. I don't wanna half-ass burn it.
Jenna Fischer [01:10:47] Okay here's what i wrote: I literally wrote "wait," okay. Cat's sister was the wife of the Hand of the King. Cat sister's husband was like a father to Cat's husband, Ned. So Ned's brother in law was like a father to him right? Ned's sister was the King's special love. Who are the Lannisters, and how did they infiltrate this whole system? That's what I wrote down.
Angela Kinsey [01:11:23] I think the Lannasters, they just have always had a ton of money.
Jenna Fischer [01:11:27] Okay and money came with the marriages. So probably when he married her, he got some money. 49 minutes and 37 seconds. There are lots of fakie scars on Ned Stark's chest, and I really like this detail, of his battle scars. I thought it was cool. Shout out to the battle scars.
Angela Kinsey [01:11:45] Shout out to the Battle Scars. We do find out in this scene, as well, that it is impacted on Ned that the king is in danger. This is his childhood friend and there really is no one he can trust and he does need Ned. Now Ned feels the calling to go protect his friend and his king.
Jenna Fischer [01:12:05] Yeah, but I mean, who are we kidding? He was never gonna say no. He couldn't say no!
Angela Kinsey [01:12:09] I know, he was trying to think about it. He was trying figure out a way to say no.
Jenna Fischer [01:12:12] I feel like he was just putting off the inevitable, to have one last good night with Cat before he had to be like - They were maybe gonna get it on, if they weren't interrupted by the raven thing.
Angela Kinsey [01:12:24] Maybe so, yeah. Maybe they already had.
Jenna Fischer [01:12:27] Maybe they already had. But I think he was stringing it along. You didn't want to give the bad news and then kill the mood. Alright, now we're gonna go to a Dothraki wedding, which was really something.
Angela Kinsey [01:12:40] People are dancing, fighting, making out, having sex, all just in one big area.
Jenna Fischer [01:12:46] My thoughts are that first I made a list of their wedding gifts because the newlyweds are sitting there and are receiving people. Here's what they got: they got a silver bowl filled with something. They got a chest of snakes. They're just sitting there, they're not talking. They are watching these gifts go by. I wrote "I'm worried she's getting a sunburn on her shoulders." Then a fight breaks out because two men want to do a humping dance with the same woman. It turns into a full-on sword fight with sickle swords, and one of the men gets his guts spilled out and dies, then kind of beheaded. Everyone loves the violence because "a Dothraki wedding without at least three deaths is considered a dull affair."
Angela Kinsey [01:13:34] Yes, I also want to point out that Daenerys is also given a chest with three dragon eggs. They've turned to stone, but they're always going to be beautiful, so she's happy about that.
Jenna Fischer [01:13:48] But wait! Before the dragon's eggs, some dude walks up and gives her some books. He gives her the songs and histories from the seven kingdoms and I wrote "do I sense some chemistry?" He's blonde but I don't think he's a creeper, is what I wrote.
Angela Kinsey [01:14:01] No, that's Jorah Mormont and he ends up being like a counselor to her. They have their hills and valleys, but he's a dear friend to her and cares for her.
Jenna Fischer [01:14:12] Well, then I wrote, "and now here come the eggs, the dragon eggs. I remember these. This is gonna be her storyline for the next two years, these eggs and these dragons." These dragons, to her, are like these foster kittens that I have. They're all over her all the time. She's constantly taking care of them.
Angela Kinsey [01:14:28] Yes, she is the mother of dragons. That's what she becomes.
Jenna Fischer [01:14:32] But then I write this: where do they keep all this stuff? Because they're a traveling society, right? So, like a good portion of their caravan is just all their crap; all these wedding gifts.
Angela Kinsey [01:14:46] They've got a cart they have to pull around. Do have to say one thing while we're talking about dragons; which is Sam, have you watched House of Dragons?
Sam [01:14:55] I have, yes.
Angela Kinsey [01:14:56] It's so good.
Sam [01:14:56] It's really good.
Angela Kinsey [01:14:57] I love it so much. It's a prequel.
Jenna Fischer [01:14:59] Oh, well, I wondered from this wedding scene; when this guy gets his head sliced open in the fight, I wondered how many prosthetic heads this show has made. There are so many beheadings. I couldn't find out that answer, but the Washington Post did do an article called "An illustrated guide to all 6,887 deaths in Game of Thrones." They break it down by season, deadliest locations, and deadliest weapons. Can you guess the deadliest location?
Angela Kinsey [01:15:31] King's Landing.
Jenna Fischer [01:15:33] It's not.
Angela Kinsey [01:15:34] It's not the Red Keep, at the end?
Jenna Fischer [01:15:36] It's Winterfell. Winterfell has a total of 3,709 deaths over the series. King's Landing only has 1,357.
Angela Kinsey [01:15:46] Really? What Khaleesi does at the end is only 1,000?
Jenna Fischer [01:15:52] That's what it said. Do you know what the deadliest weapon is?
Sam [01:15:59] Broadsword?
Jenna Fischer [01:15:59] Nope. The blade is third with 801 deaths.
Angela Kinsey [01:16:01] A dragon?
Jenna Fischer [01:16:03] Yes, an animal. More people are killed by an animal: it's 1,756 deaths by animal, followed by 1,244 by magic. They also have a category for the deadliest killers. This one got me excited. This stat might keep me watching. Drogon came in number one. I don't know why it's spelled that way. Is that a thing? The Drogon, they had a picture of a dragon. Is Drogon a special dragon?
Angela Kinsey [01:16:35] Yes, very big.
Jenna Fischer [01:16:36] Well, Drogón came in number one as the deadliest killer with 1,426 kills. Do you know who got number two? Which character is the deadliest killer after Drogon?
Sam [01:16:51] The Hound?
Angela Kinsey [01:16:52] The mountain?
Jenna Fischer [01:16:53] No.
Sam [01:16:54] Ramsey Bolton? Khaleesi?
Jenna Fischer [01:16:55] 1,278 kills. They say it's Arya Stark.
Angela/Sam in unison [01:17:05] [surprised] Oh, oh, oh.
Angela Kinsey [01:17:07] Well, she was with the Man of Many Faces for a while, yeah.
Jenna Fischer [01:17:12] That got me excited. I was like, "I'll watch that gal -"
Angela Kinsey [01:17:14] Oh! I know why! I KNOW why, Arya.
Jenna Fischer [01:17:17] I thought she had a list or something?
Angela Kinsey [01:17:18] No that's right. Of course it's Arya.
Jenna Fischer [01:17:21] Do you know the deadliest season? In season one, there are only 59 deaths.
Angela Kinsey [01:17:32] I was gonna say winter, but I guess that's wrong.
Sam [01:17:33] Season three?
Jenna Fischer [01:17:34] No, season eight with 4,548 deaths. There you go.
Angela Kinsey [01:17:41] Well, here's what's going to happen now.
Jenna Fischer [01:17:45] Khal is done.
Angela Kinsey [01:17:47] He's done, and I guess his gift to Denarius is this very beautiful white horse that he puts her on and they're going to ride off. Viserys says, "Make him happy." I'm like, "Shut up, Viserys."
Jenna Fischer [01:18:01] This is going to be kind of the first time when we see Emilia Clarke and Jason Momoa standing next to each other, when he presents her with this horse. I looked it up. She is 5'2". Jason Momoa is 6'4". Angela Kinsey is 5' 1" and Rainn Wilson is 6' 2". So it's an almost exact height difference by just one inch. They've got one inch on you guys. But then I tried to Google to see if she had to stand on a lot of boxes when she was filming this. I couldn't get a straight answer, but if you ever meet her, it might be something you guys talk about.
Angela Kinsey [01:18:37] I now want to re-watch and just think about how often they would have Rainn Wilson seated and me standing in a scene, because that way they could get us both in frame. So I wonder if Khal is seated a lot.
Jenna Fischer [01:18:48] Let's see.
Angela Kinsey [01:18:49] Oh, let's see, does that mean you're going to watch more?
Jenna Fischer [01:18:52] [giggles mischeviously] I might. I'm sort of reinvested. OK, it's the wedding night.
Angela Kinsey [01:18:57] Wedding night on a cliff? On some rocks? There's not even a bed. There's nothing cozy and intimate about this.
Jenna Fischer [01:19:06] It's not great. I wanna tell you, I was really rooting for Khal to be this sensitive and attentive lover. I wanted him to go against type, you know? I just think it would have been a cool twist. Instead, he is not sensitive and he rapes her on these rocks. I looked this up and in the book, he's very gentle and it's what I wanted. He waits until Daenerys warms up to him. She consents by putting his hand between her thighs. She enjoys the sex. In the unseen pilot of the show, they went with a scene that was more like the one in the book. But when asked about changing it for Winter is Coming, George R.R. Martin said, "Ultimately you would have to ask the showrunners" because it wasn't his idea. It has been speculated that given the forced nature of the wedding and Daenerys' young age, that modern audiences would not have accepted the sex as consensual and they chose to depict it as forced. Clark believed that the rape and Viserys' abuse were instrumental in building up empathy for her character and for her eventual comeuppance.
Angela Kinsey [01:20:15] I didn't know that it was written differently. There is a storyline where she sort of tells him like, "This is not how we're gonna do this."
Jenna Fischer [01:20:22] I feel like I remember that. I feel there's this moment where she is like, "I believe this can be pleasurable for both of us." Am I remembering this right?
Angela Kinsey [01:20:31] You are, you are.
Jenna Fischer [01:20:32] They start becoming lovers and she loves him.
Angela Kinsey [01:20:36] They fall in love. Yeah. There is this scene where she's kind of learned from her ladies of court, if you will, in the Dothraki. She has women that tend to her. She's like, "I don't know anything about sex. This is all I know. There's got to be more." So he comes to her one night. Literally, she just stops him and is like, "No, we're not doing it this way anymore." And then, it's on.
Jenna Fischer [01:21:01] It's on.
Angela Kinsey [01:21:02] They're really invested in each other. He kind of learns "Oh, maybe I didn't know this is how you could be with someone," kind of thing.
Jenna Fischer [01:21:12] I remember watching it the first time and being slightly conflicted about that whole storyline. I was like, "This feels very...".
Angela Kinsey [01:21:20] Well, they could have just started that way. I like the against type thing. He seems gruff on the exterior, but now this is his wife and he's gonna take care of her.
Jenna Fischer [01:21:30] Yeah
Angela Kinsey [01:21:32] Well, we're not done with -
Jenna Fischer [01:21:34] Disturbing sexual encounters?
Angela Kinsey [01:21:35] Exactly. Well, wait, before we get there, we do have a scene between Ned and the king. They're about to go hunting and King Robert just says, "Thank you. Thank you for being my hand to the king," and that he says, "You are my last loyal friend." So yeah, now we're up in the tower. Bran is scaling the wall. Once again, he's climbing up to the very top wall. He looks in and what does he see? Jamie and Cersei.
Jenna Fischer [01:22:04] They are getting it on.
Angela Kinsey [01:22:05] They're getting it on. They both look up and see him.
Jenna Fischer [01:22:08] Because he's doing a horrible job of peeping. How long did he need to watch that?
Angela Kinsey [01:22:13] I don't know. He's caught. He's busted. Jamie grabs him and has him by the shirt. He's kind of half hanging out the window. Jamie's gonna just tell him, "Hey, get out of here." Jamie is not going to hurt him. But then Cersei, over and over, is like, "He saw, he saw," and she's basically saying to him that he cannot have witnessed this.
Jenna Fischer [01:22:36] Do we think this is why they killed John Aaron, too, is because John Aaron was onto them? Because they sort of allude to that. They're like, "What if he told?".
Angela Kinsey [01:22:44] Yeah, no, for sure John Aaron found out. For sure, I think.
Jenna Fischer [01:22:47] OK, so so many people have to die to keep this secret.
Angela Kinsey [01:22:51] Jamie shoves him out the window and you don't know what happens to Bran and then he sort of casually turns to Cersei and says, "Ah, the things we do for love.".
Jenna Fischer [01:23:01] And that's the end of the episode.
Angela Kinsey [01:23:02] And that was the end of the Episode. That's it. That was so fun and thank you for watching it, Jenna. I think maybe now I owe you one.
Jenna Fischer [01:23:12] [affirmatively] Mmm.
Angela Kinsey [01:23:15] Oh no.
Jenna Fischer [01:23:16] You know what, will you all write in and say what should I pick for Angela to watch now?
Angela Kinsey [01:23:22] Be nice, y'all.
Jenna Fischer [01:23:24] I don't know, I mean you already watched The Edge for me. So that's all I could ever really ask for. I feel satisfied. I do, yeah.
Angela Kinsey [01:23:34] Really? I have so many things I want you to watch.
Jenna Fischer [01:23:36] Okay, well maybe I'll have to watch another one of yours.
Angela Kinsey [01:23:39] Okay, I really can't believe you haven't seen Pride and Prejudice.
Jenna Fischer [01:23:42] Oh, yes. Of course.
Angela Kinsey [01:23:46] I need that to happen in my life.
Jenna Fischer [01:23:47] Well, I have to decide now if I've gotten roped back into the Game of Thrones story, which I don't know. I just know what's gonna happen, which is that all of these terrible people are gonna keep doing terrible things and they're gonna kill all the people I like, and I just don't if I can go down that road again.
Angela Kinsey [01:24:06] Well, when you put it that way, alright. Well, you guys write in, let us know if there's something you want me to watch. And maybe Jenna, we can take a break from Game of Thrones. I'm not gonna give up on it with you. Maybe we watch Pride and Prejudice.
Jenna Fischer [01:24:20] I would be up for that. Well listen everyone, thank you for tuning in to Office Ladies' do Game of Thrones. Next time we might do Pride and Prejudice. See you then.
Angela Kinsey [01:24:30] Have a good one.
audio cue [01:24:31] GOT theme plays and crossfades into outro theme for Office Ladies
Jenna Fischer [01:24:47] Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.
Angela Kinsey [01:24:49] Office Ladies is a presentation of Audacy and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.
Jenna Fischer [01:24:54] Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubbaco.
Jenna Fischer [01:25:03] Audacy's executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman and Leo Reese Dennis. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.