TRANSCRIPT
Office Ladies | Episode 263 – Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast with Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey
Jenna [00:00:03] Hello everybody.
Angela [00:00:05] Hi there!
Jenna [00:00:06] I'm still in Chicago doing my play. And I’m going to be here a little longer. We just found out my play Ashland Avenue has been extended again to October 19th! So if you haven’t had a chance to see it, please come see it! Ah. It's crazy. I've had the best time.
Angela [00:00:15] It has been such a joy to watch you on this journey, lady.
Jenna [00:00:18] Oh my gosh. I can't believe it. Every night I go out there (and you know sometimes we have two shows a day) and I just can't wait to do these scenes. I just love them. I look forward to each scene for a different reason. There's some moment that one of the other actors, I can't wait to watch them do it.
Angela [00:00:36] Isn't that so fun, to just get to watch and marvel at your co-stars moment?
Jenna [00:00:41] Yes. Oh my gosh. The actor who plays my dad, Fran Guinan, I am constantly marveling at him. The other woman in the play with me, her name is Cordelia Dewdney and she is so good. We only get one scene together. It's only, like, three pages. It's short, but it's so good. I look forward to it every night. I can't wait. As soon as she walks in the door, I'm like, "Yes, here we go."
Angela [00:01:05] "Here we go!"
Jenna [00:01:06] Yes. Also, you saw the show. You saw how funny Chike Johnson is. He plays my husband, Mike, in the play. Can you believe that before this play, he said he doesn't really do comedies. He does dramas, mostly dramas. I was like, what?
Angela [00:01:21] What? No way. He's so hilarious in the play.
Jenna [00:01:25] He is so funny. He gets the biggest laughs in the play. We have this really funny scene together. I look forward to it every night, it's in act two. I love it so much.
Angela [00:01:35] I loved all of your scenes together. You guys have such fun chemistry, and I cannot believe he doesn't normally do comedies. He's so funny.
Jenna [00:01:44] And Angela, we didn't talk about this on our Friday Chit Chat a while back. Will Allen, who's another actor in the play, he is an Office trivia champion. We have to have him on the podcast, lady.
Angela [00:01:58] Yeah, you know, I met him when I came to see your play. He told me he paid his rent by winning Office trivia quizzes.
Jenna [00:02:04] Yes, during the pandemic. That's right. And his team, they won the national online competition twice and they're the number one team in Chicago. Do you know what their name is?
Angela [00:02:17] It's an Office deep cut. What is it? I'm guessing. Is it an Office reference?
Jenna [00:02:21] It is.
Angela [00:02:22] What is it?
Jenna [00:02:23] "Who's your worm guy?"
Angela [00:02:24] Oh, nice. It's a Creed line. That's perfect.
Jenna [00:02:27] That's pretty great, right?
Angela [00:02:29] Oh, that's so great. Well, lady, while you're doing your play, I'm gearing up for my cookbook tour!
Jenna [00:02:35] Oh my gosh, you're leaving so soon. It's happening.
Angela [00:02:37] It's happening! We got the book. We got to hold it. It's beautiful. I'm so proud of it. I can't wait to meet people and just get our cookbook out in the world.
Jenna [00:02:48] You're going out to sign cookbooks. Tell people where you're going. You're going to three cities, right?
Angela [00:02:52] We're going to three cities, so far. I'll put all this in our stories, but we are going to New Jersey. We're going to Dallas and we are going to Santa Monica. Also, we're going to be in New York. We're going be doing a little fun pop-up things in New York City, like "The Today Show," "The Sherry show." I think we're doing some man on the street stuff.
Jenna [00:03:11] Man on the street?!
Angela [00:03:11] Lady, I have no idea.
Jenna [00:03:14] You and Josh, running around?
Angela [00:03:16] Yeah. I mean, it's going to be an adventure for sure. But the book is great. I can't wait for people to get it.
Jenna [00:03:22] You know what I just realized? This is the year that we both got to bring projects to the world with our husbands.
Angela [00:03:30] Yeah!
Jenna [00:03:31] How cool is that?
Angela [00:03:33] Really cool. Really cool, and so special.
Jenna [00:03:36] It's really special, right? Because it's like, "here's the love of your life. And now you've made something together and you're putting it out in the world." You have this creative thing that you created together. It's so cool.
Angela [00:03:46] Yeah.
Jenna [00:03:47] You know, lady, "New Year's Rev" premiered at the Toronto Film Festival.
Angela [00:03:52] I know.
Jenna [00:03:54] And it's - Oh, huge, amazing reception. People love this movie. People love it. I can't wait until we can announce when this movie is coming out, because people love it.
Angela [00:04:05] I just saw a critic, like a little blurb, and I'm going to paraphrase this, but they had seen the movie and they said something like, "Green Day has made the next great teen movie," something like that.
Jenna [00:04:16] I mean, it's amazing. I'm so proud to be in it. It's so cool. Oh my gosh, listen to us.
Angela [00:04:20] Okay.
Jenna [00:04:21] Okay, sorry. Everybody, we're excited about the stuff we're doing. And that's great, right? It's good to be excited about the stuff you're doing in life. I think, especially if you're an artist, that's what we do.
Angela [00:04:30] Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we're also behind the scenes working on new episodes for Office Ladies that are so fun. And this week we're going to run our appearance on another Audacy podcast: "The Golden Girls Deep Dive." It's hosted by Patrick Hinds and Jennifer Simard.
Jenna [00:04:45] These two are so funny. Every week they break down an episode of "The Golden Girls." They do a really great job. Back in June, they had us on their podcast for an interview. We had the best time. They asked us to watch an episode of Golden Girls, we don't do a full breakdown of it but we do discuss it. Lady, it was so crazy to revisit that show.
Angela [00:05:07] It makes me want to rewatch the whole show. I mean, it's so good.
Jenna [00:05:10] That's what surprised me, I think. And we kind of talk about this in our interview with them, how good it was.
Angela [00:05:16] So good.
Jenna [00:05:18] The nuance and the performances and the comedy, it was so, so good.
Angela [00:05:23] When we were prepping to do it, I read this article in "Southern Living Magazine" that has the 65 best Golden Girls quotes and reading them, Jenna, it made me laugh out loud. Just reading the quotes.
Jenna [00:05:37] Oh my gosh. Is it sort of like reading a bunch of Joe Bennett quotes?
Angela [00:05:43] Yes, it is! Okay, here's one. I'll just read you one, cause there's 65. This is a quote from Dorothy: "Go to sleep, sweetheart. Pray for brains."
Jenna [00:05:52] This is what I'm saying. That feels like something maybe Joe Bennett would say. I feel like Dorothy and Joe Bennett maybe have the same book of quotes.
Angela [00:05:59] 100%. Yeah.
Jenna [00:06:01] Well, Lady, I sent you a quiz because I thought we should find out which Golden Girl we are.
Angela [00:06:07] Yes, you know, I can share both of these articles and our stories cause they made me laugh and I think they're gonna make you crack up too. But this quiz was great and Jenna, I'm really curious to hear who you got.
Jenna [00:06:16] Who do you think I was? I think you might think I'm Dorothy.
Angela [00:06:19] I think you are Dorothy.
Jenna [00:06:22] I was Rose.
Angela [00:06:24] Oh my gosh, you were Rose!
Jenna [00:06:27] I guess, I don't know. I answered all the questions and I got Rose.
Angela [00:06:32] Who do you think I got?
Jenna [00:06:34] Rose.
Angela [00:06:35] Yes. We're two Roses!
Jenna [00:06:40] I think we are. I think, we're two people who just have a lot of fun in life, and I don't know. Maybe all the ways we don't understand modern technology make us Rose? I don't know.
Angela [00:06:54] That's probably true. Although there were one or two questions that I felt like I was kind of teetering on that I feel like could have made me a Dorothy.
Jenna [00:07:02] Same, same. I think though, I'm not a Blanche.
Angela [00:07:07] I think we're Rose with a side of Dorothy.
Jenna [00:07:09] There it is. Well, everyone, I hope you enjoy listening to this interview. Since we have both been so busy with some of our other projects, we leaned on some of friends and other podcasts to interview us and then we get to share it with you. So we really hope you enjoyed it.
Angela [00:07:25] Have a great week.
audio cue [00:07:25] [intro theme to Golden Girls Deep Dive plays]
Patrick [00:07:32] At long last, I get to say the words. Hello, Mother Cheesecake!
Jennifer [00:07:36] Hello, Papa.
Patrick [00:07:38] Oh, we're so happy. You are so beautiful. You are glowing. You are radiant. You are the moment. You are icon. I'm so happy to be back in the studio with you.
Jennifer [00:07:46] I have missed you and cheesecakes. I have noticed that we've started saying cheesies, and I might like it even more than cheesecakes.
Patrick [00:07:52] I love the cheesies.
Jennifer [00:07:55] I love the cheesies!
Patrick [00:07:56] I'm seeing the cheezys on the road. They are always asking me about you. We send you videos. They love you. How are you?
Jennifer [00:08:01] I'm great. I've missed you. I'm so glad to be back. I thought our graham cracker crust killed it. Steve is the greatest.
Patrick [00:08:08] I know, I know. He worked so hard. He was so excited to be here. He really wanted to do you justice.
Jennifer [00:08:12] Listen, we are a team and I love teamwork. My parents raised me. My mom was my softball coach, my dad was my brother's baseball coach and more than anything, they stressed the power and importance of teamwork. So I'm so proud to be part of this team.
Patrick [00:08:25] I love you so much, but we are getting to this episode, this interview with the Office Ladies: Angela and Jenna from the Office Ladies, from The Office. I'm obsessed. I cannot wait to talk to them.
Jennifer [00:08:33] I can't wait either.
Patrick [00:08:34] Before we get there, I just want to ask you: what was it like to go viral, like, a hundred times?
Jennifer [00:08:39] It was so incredible. And you know, the best part is it's not something that was manipulated from our show. In the number, "Hit Me," I have this line. "That was rude. That was pretty effing rude." And of course I say the real word, and it just took off. So it happened while I was sleeping, so to speak. I woke up and here's this viral moment.
Patrick [00:09:01] I mean, unreal. Like, Madonna did it. That is crazy. It was everywhere. It was all over the internet. We're going to get way more into this in the future, but the Tonys; you were nominated. It was glorious. How was it for you?
Jennifer [00:09:15] It was incredible. To be nominated with Megan, my co-star, was perfection. Then to be among those women, one of whom is Audra McDonald. I've known her since she was Audra Ann McDonald.
Patrick [00:09:27] Is that right?
Jennifer [00:09:27] Yeah, I met her singing at St. Clair hospital, which is no longer there, with Seth Rudetsky. That day I met Norm Lewis and Audra. And her name at that time was Audre Ann and she was in between her first audition for "Carousel" and her callback.
Patrick [00:09:44] [gasping] No way.
Jennifer [00:09:44] Which ended up being her first Tony Award and changed everything for her. And we're the same age, you know. So it's just... It was so special. We're like, "We're still here," you know? And we just kind of sent each other supportive messages and that was really great.
Patrick [00:09:58] That's what I love because, and tell me if I'm wrong, it seems like it doesn't feel competitive between the nominees, that you are all really supporting each other.
Jennifer [00:10:04] It's inherently competitive because that's technically what it is. But if you don't treat it that way and just have fun, then it really is the right way to do it. That's, I believe, the way we try to approach it all.
Patrick [00:10:15] Well, cheesies, listen, if you will allow it, we're gonna do a whole talk about your last couple of months because you've been away. You've been so busy. Everything has gotten crazy for you. But right now, we need to get to this interview with Angela and Jenna from The Office, from the Office Ladies podcast.
Jennifer [00:10:29] Yesssss.
Patrick [00:10:29] I gotta tell you, we work with a company called Audacy. They are the ones who sell our ads for us. They support us. They've been marketing us. They have been so, so supportive of this podcast. From the beginning (because Angela and Jenna work with them as well), we were like, "It'd be such a dream to get them. We're gonna really try to make this happen." And as far back as Christmas, both Angela and Jenna wanted to do this interview. They just are so busy and had so much going on. It finally made sense for them to do it now. We're gonna have a bunch of social media. So go to our social media so you can see some of the videos of this conversation that we're about to have. I'm so delighted. I can't wait to talk with you with them.
Jennifer [00:11:07] Yeah, me too.
Patrick [00:11:08] And you know, one of the things we're gonna talk about is the Barbara Thorndyke episode of The Golden Girls, for a million reasons.
Jennifer [00:11:14] [laughing] I can't wait.
Patrick [00:11:14] But technically, I have so many questions for them about being a guest star: what it takes to be a good guest star, working with guest stars.
Jennifer [00:11:21] They're the experts.
Patrick [00:11:22] I've got a lot of questions about this, just about their podcast, "Superstars," how did that happen? It's gonna be a great conversation. So shall we dive in?
Jennifer [00:11:30] Let's dive in.
audio cue [00:11:37] [musical sting]
Patrick [00:11:37] So Jenna Fischer, Angela Kinsey, I cannot tell you what an honor this is - To be on a Zoom, not just with the two of you, but with Jennifer Simard as well. I don't know what I did in this life, to get to be on this Zoom with the three of you. We are overwhelmed, we are honored. Our listeners have been begging for this crossover forever. So welcome to The Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast.
Jennifer [00:11:55] Welcome! We are so excited.
Angela [00:11:56] Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, we're so tickled.
Jennifer [00:11:59] I have to say, I love that it's a glasses convention. We're all wearing our glasses.
Patrick [00:12:02] Oh, yeah.
Jennifer [00:12:03] Cheesecakes, yes. We love it, don't we?
Jenna [00:12:05] It's that season of life.
Jennifer [00:12:05] We all look so cute.
Angela [00:12:06] It is. And I wanna be able to see you.
Jennifer [00:12:10] Yeah, that part. That part right there.
Patrick [00:12:12] You two are such big stars. I was waiting for the presidential thing, like, "Please hold for Angela Kinsey and Jenna Fischer." And then you pop in very officially, but you're so down to earth. You're just like the rest of us.
Jenna [00:12:24] Oh my gosh. Yeah, Angela and I, we're besties and we do the podcast together and we all the other things together too, like organize each other's closets. We don't have assistance or anything. It's just us gals.
Angela [00:12:40] Just us gals.
Patrick [00:12:41] Jen refuses to organize my closet. I've been begging and begging and begging.
Jennifer [00:12:44] No.
Jenna [00:12:45] It's so fun, to do it together.
Jennifer [00:12:49] But I don't have months. I don't have months, is the problem.
Angela [00:12:52] That's how long it would take? Oh, Patrick.
Jennifer [00:12:54] Sorry, Patrick.
Patrick [00:12:54] I know.
Jennifer [00:12:55] So sorry. Listen, here's the thing: we all know, as huge fans, you are both sitcom icons. I mean icons. The Office is an iconic sitcom.
Patrick [00:13:05] Truly.
Jennifer [00:13:05] It's lasted the test of time, as has the Golden Girls. It's also an iconic sitcom. What is your relationship to the Golden Girls? And what do you think it is about shows like yours and the Golden Girls that make them so timeless? If you had to guess.
Angela [00:13:21] Oh well, gosh. To be able to be a part of a show that people keep connecting to over the years, over and over multiple generations. You can't even believe that you won that lottery ticket. You know? And we all grew up with shows like that. We all grew up with shows that we watched with our parents when we didn't even hang out with them otherwise, right? In those teen years. And so that's really meaningful. I think the Golden Girls and The Office (and shows like them that stand the test of time) have relationships that people connect with, right?
Jennifer [00:13:53] Mhmm.
Angela [00:13:53] Jenna and I, we've sort of seen this as we go out in the world. Whether you're at a hospital or you're a homeroom classroom, there's always a Dwight. Right? It doesn't matter where you work, there's probably a persnickety Angela.
Patrick [00:14:08] Yup.
Angela [00:14:09] And you've got to have that relationship you're rooting for. I think for the Golden Girls, it's that sisterhood. For The Office, it was Jim and Pam. I like to think some people were rooting for Dwight and Angela.
Patrick [00:14:21] I 100% was. I was like, "Somebody's got to set him right. She's the only one who can do it."
Angela [00:14:25] That's right. Her and her clipboard.
Patrick [00:14:28] I married an Angela, by the way. So I totally 100%. I married the child of Angela and Pam. Steve is the marriage of those two characters. So I very much relate to that dynamic.
Angela [00:14:39] Well, I just think those shows have such huge themes about life and love ,and loss and trying to find your way. Whether they're set in a sort of community in Florida or in a small office, that's what people connect to. It's not that we work at a paper company. That's not it,
Patrick [00:15:02] Yeah.
Angela [00:15:02] - it's that journey of life that happens.
Jenna [00:15:04] Yeah, I agree with all of that. So I watched the Golden Girls when it was on.
Patrick [00:15:08] Oh, okay good.
Angela [00:15:09] Yes.
Jenna [00:15:10] Like everybody else, it was appointment viewing.
Angela [00:15:12] Appointment television, yeah.
Jenna [00:15:13] Yeah, it was one of my favorite shows and I hadn't watched it in forever until we said we were gonna do this collaboration. But then something that I remembered in watching it was how Golden Girls wasn't afraid to get dramatic. All these storylines started flooding in for me. I was like, "I think that might be part of it too," is that it rings all the comedy bells. But then every once in a while, it tugs at your heartstrings. Or makes you think about something.
Patrick [00:15:50] Do you think, in that vein, that The Office comes from that sort of lineage? Because The Office certainly has it. I was thinking too about how there are moments when you see Angela cry, and those are some of the most emotional moments of The Office for me. Like, Pam is such a sweet soul, and my God, Pam's arc towards the end is very tear jerky. But I do think it surprises people when they go back and look at the Golden Girls, that there are moment you could cry. There are moments that are really dry. Do you think that The Office comes from that sort of tradition in sitcom?
Jenna [00:16:25] Yeah. I think a little bit. I mean, I know that that was one of the gifts of the way we shot the show; was that we could pull the camera back and we could observe these more private, intimate moments of characters, which is something you don't get to do a lot in comedy. So, yeah. I mean 100%.
Angela [00:16:44] Yeah, and I think Golden Girls is just classic television comedy writing. Each character is their own little season and spice and they bring something unique. They have a unique point of view and you can count on that point of view and you get excited for it. You know Sophia, right? You know what she's gonna deliver. I think The Office had that too. Your characters, they grow a little bit, but they don't grow so much. That they're still not who you want them to be. That's just great, great comedy writing.
Jennifer [00:17:19] Also great performing, great acting, because you are such beautiful actors in your show. So too, are the actors in the Golden Girls. Give me any actor who's capable of comedy and I guarantee you they can be a sad clown when they need to be, but it's not always true in reverse. So my hats off to both of you.
Jenna [00:17:39] Thank you. You know, we have a Golden Girls/Office crossover.
Angela [00:17:45] We do.
Patrick [00:17:47] [astonished] What is it?
Angela [00:17:47] I was so tickled when we heard it in this episode.
Patrick [00:17:51] Tell me!
Jenna [00:17:52] What are you talking about? I'm talking about Kent Zbornak.
Angela [00:17:55] Me too! Because the inscription in the book that Barbara gives Dorothy, it says "to Dorothy Zbornak." And I said, "Oh my gosh, I just heard that name in the episode!"
Jennifer [00:18:07] That's right. That's Right.
Jenna [00:18:09] Our co-exec producer, Kent Zbornak, was an assistant to Susan Harris. She liked his last name so much that when she had to name Dorothy, she gave Dorothy the last name Zbornak.
Jennifer [00:18:22] That's the origin story?
Jenna [00:18:23] Yes.
Patrick [00:18:24] That I knew, but I didn't realize that he also worked on The Office. That's incredible.
Angela [00:18:28] He was our producer for those first seasons that really developed the whole show. And he's wonderful. It just tickled us when we found that out.
Jenna [00:18:38] And he also worked on Golden Girls. He told us, cause we asked him. We were like, "Zbornak, that's a very specific name." He said that when he did eventually meet Bea Arthur, and she found out that her character was his namesake, she was so kind and she almost became like a second mother to him. He just loved her.
Patrick [00:19:01] [touched] Oh my God.
Angela [00:19:02] So sweet.
Patrick [00:19:03] That is incredible. I wanted to ask the two of you as actors, the thing about The Golden Girls, it's never been off the air, right? From the day it was on for four decades now, it's ever been off of the air. It's one of those comfort shows. When we were asking our listeners what they wanted to know about, from you all, one of the questions that you got in a bunch of different ways is sort of, what is it like for you, as actors, to know? In my house, we've watched The Office straight through no fewer than eight, nine times. That is a commitment, but now you can get through it in three months or whatever. What does it feel like for you all to know that this is gonna outlive you, no question? It'll be around long after we leave this plane. Very, very, very few shows have that kind of history. How does it feel to be a part of that?
Jenna [00:19:53] I mean, it's very humbling. Also, it's very moving to me. I know that our show does everything; from just be on the background while people make dinner, to helping people while they're going through a medical crisis. I can't tell you how many people tell us, "Oh, this is what we watch to get through chemotherapy" or "this helped me when I was grieving the loss of someone." So to be that kind of comfort and constant, it takes something that was just the most fun thing in the world to do, a comedy television show, into feeling so meaningful and I'm so happy, you know?
Angela [00:20:42] I mean, I think we just sit in a lot of gratitude and it was so much fun to do. I had this writing professor that said, "What's a pleasure to write is a pleasure read." I always thought about that when we were on the set because we were having so much and I just was like, "I hope people watch this and have that same joy that we have doing it." We spent most our days trying not to ruin each other's scenes cause we were laughing so hard. Just, what a gift. And to know that it has such meaning and that will just go on and on is very surreal. It's special. It's humbling, like Jenna said. Then it's also kind of strange sometimes because I forget. You just go about your life. You're at the grocery store or whatever. You're dropping your kid off at soccer practice. That part of your life is on the back burner in your mind and someone will see you and yell, "Green is whorish!" And you're like, "What? What? Why?" And then you're, like, "Ohhhh yes. Right of course"
Jennifer [00:21:52] You two are legitimate podcast stars now. I'm going to combine this a little bit, but what does that feel like? You said earlier, there's been a learning curve (which is so humble of you to even say) but of course there is as anything in life. What inspired you to make the podcast in the first place? Was it important to you that it wasn't just a recap podcast? So, all of those questions, as the legitimate podcast stars you are.
Jenna [00:22:15] Well, I think one of the biggest things was ever since The Office ended, Angela and I wanted to work together again.
Jennifer [00:22:20] Nice.
Jenna [00:22:20] There is nothing like getting to go to work every day with your very best friend, the person you trust the most. So we were always looking for that opportunity and we didn't know what that was. We were like, "Is it a TV show?" We would joke that we wanted to take over the fourth hour of The Today Show and just drink wine and chat in the mornings with people about current events. We were, like, "We just need to be best friends working together." But then the other thing that was happening after The Office was we were now in the season of our lives with our young children.
Patrick [00:22:55] Yeah.
Jenna [00:22:56] And going off to a set for 12-14 hours a day was really hard on our mom hearts, and we would talk about that too. We would say, "How can we have a really fun, creative job that we do together that also allows us to be at all of those milestones as a parent: at all the soccer games and the volleyball games and the school performances and the parent-teacher conferences. Like, what's that job? Can we find it?" And that was how we kind of honed in on podcasting.
Patrick [00:23:27] Now, was this your idea? And if you don't mind me saying, we were chatting a little bit about this before we started. I got into podcasting about nine years ago because I fell in love with the art of podcasting. Then of course the zone got flooded and it's not very often that a game changer podcast presents itself. Your podcast came out and was so instantly beloved and seemed to be exactly what the world needed at the exact moment. So I guess my question is: was it your two's idea to do the podcast? Did people approach you about the podcast and did you know that you wanted to really give the behind the scenes experience, more than just recapping the episodes?
Angela [00:24:07] The way it started, we had no idea that it was gonna be a rewatch podcast. Really, we had a ton of memorabilia: photos, scripts, you name it. Jenna and I were the historians of the show. We saved everything. We took a ton of pictures. We started this project, that we had wanted to do for years, to clean out our sheds and closets.
Jenna [00:24:31] I told you, we clean things together.
Angela [00:24:33] This really happened. The thing is, neither of us were doing it until we're like, "Okay, we're both gonna do it." And in that process, I think I found out that I clearly have some weird obsession with baskets. I had like 32 baskets. Jenna had so many lamps. I'm like, "Why are you keeping all these lamps?"
Jenna [00:24:49] I was convinced I was gonna rewire them.
Angela [00:24:51] [laughing] I know. I know, but anyway, we found boxes and boxes of our Office memorabilia. We were like, "We wanna preserve this for our kids." We weren't really sure how. We decided to each take our bin of Halloween pictures and stories and re-watch a Halloween episode and sort of just make notes.
Jenna [00:25:14] Like an oral history. We just wanted to get it down. What would you call that? Like, journaling out loud?
Angela [00:25:21] Journaling out loud. We had no real idea what we were gonna do with that session. We just wanted to do something with it. We didn't know if it would eventually lead to a book or a podcast or just us getting this history down for our kids. So Jenna came over and I got lunch. We have a garage that we kind of made into a bonus room, and we sat on my Ikea couch out there and put my iPhone between the two of us on the couch and hit record. Jenna shared hers, which was a very structured, outlined, thoughtful,
Jenna [00:25:56] I wrote, like, a three page document.
Angela [00:25:59] Yes. You see these note cards behind me? I had a stack of these notecards with my notes and ideas and pictures. The two of us had such a different approach to a shared memory. We both had the same memory and we came at it from such two different perspectives. We just laughed and talked and it was really fun. I hit "stop record" at the end and my husband is a really good editor and he listened to it. I sent it to Jenna and her husband and my husband and they listened to it. And Josh said to me, "Ange, this is a podcast." And Jenna's husband said the same thing. He was like, "You guys have something here."
Patrick [00:26:41] Wow.
Jenna [00:26:42] So we took it out.
Angela [00:26:44] Yeah, Josh edited it to a little sizzle kind of thing and we took out ourselves.
Patrick [00:26:49] Wow.
Jennifer [00:26:50] That's incredible. I love that story. It just goes to show you everyone: just create, just do the thing. You never know what can become of it. I'm inspired, Patrick. I do want to ask the first listener question because they brought up memorabilia.
Patrick [00:27:03] Oh, yeah.
Jennifer [00:27:04] We got a question from a listener named Kathleen. So for both of you, for followers of Office Ladies and Office BFFs, we all know what props and set decor they kept from The Office. I want to know, and Kathleen wants to know, what Golden Girls prop or decor they would love to have.
Angela [00:27:22] Oh, well...
Jenna [00:27:23] I mean, okay.
Jennifer [00:27:25] Jenna's raising her hand.
Angela [00:27:26] [to Jenna] No, you go first.
Jenna [00:27:27] I have something from this episode that I want very badly.
Angela [00:27:30] What?
Patrick [00:27:31] Okay, yes. So we're going to talk about the episode, "Dorothy's New Friend," in a minute. That's the episode you're talking about.
Jenna [00:27:39] Just in general, I would anything in their kitchen.
Angela [00:27:42] Oh, yes, yes.
Jenna [00:27:43] The tablecloth, any of the kitchen decor is amazing. From this episode specifically though, I've become somewhat obsessed with Blanche's yellow pantsuit.
Jennifer [00:27:56] Uh huh.
Jenna [00:27:57] If I could buy it and wear it, I would 100% do it.
Jennifer [00:28:00] Alright.
Patrick [00:28:01] I feel like you could rock so many of Blanche's outfits: the red number with the thing at the top. Oh my God, you'd be perfect in that.
Jenna [00:28:09] They all look comfy.
Angela [00:28:11] They do. They look like they breathe and move with you. You know? I'm obsessed with all of the wicker and the coral. So that furniture set in the living room, the couch and the chair, I mean, I want it. I want that wicker chair. I truly do.
Jennifer [00:28:29] And their 72 coral napkins.
Angela [00:28:30] Yes.
Jennifer [00:28:31] They have so many coral napkins. Excellent.
Patrick [00:28:33] You know what I would take, if I could take anything - We have big walls in my apartment and I would take the front door, with that exclamation mark. I don't know if you've seen it, but there's an exclamation marks sort of chiseled into the front door. I would put it on the wall behind plexiglass, or something.
Jennifer [00:28:51] Oh, yeah.
Angela [00:28:51] Oh, I love that.
Patrick [00:28:52] How gay.
Jennifer [00:28:52] Or you can make a dining table out of it.
Patrick [00:28:54] Oh, that's a good idea.
Jennifer [00:28:55] I would take the copper lobster mold on the wall that looks like a penis.
Patrick [00:29:03] Well, let's talk about it: we asked you to (and you so kindly did) watch the episode, Dorothy's New Friend, which is made iconic by the actress, Bonnie Bartlett. It's the episode where Barbara Thorndyke is Dorothy's new friend and she's kind of a jerk and the other women see it but Dorothy doesn't really see it. So my question is, do you think this episode is iconic and if so, why?
Angela [00:29:26] I mean, I do because it's about friendship and it's that new person that enters into the old guard, the group, you know? That is a very common theme. It's super relatable. We've all lived it. We've all had a good friend group and then had a new person join and you're like, "Well, what? What's happening here?"
Patrick [00:29:49] [laughing] Right.
Angela [00:29:51] Also it has that very sweet ending where Dorothy is going to stand up for her friends and her mom and her mom's friend, so I loved the ending.
Patrick [00:30:07] Whenever I hear the word "metaphor," it always takes me right back to this, "I know what a metaphor is, dear." Then also the titles of the books. The episode that we're actually doing our regular episode on today when we're done with this, there's a shot of the hospital from the outside that says like, "Biscayne Bay Hospital" and I'm always thinking like, "So dark the waves on Biscaysne Bay." But Jenna what do you think?
Jennifer [00:30:29] I'm sorry, Patrick.
Patrick [00:30:31] Yeah?
Jennifer [00:30:31] I'm sorry. For the group, what is a metaphor?
Patrick [00:30:36] Don't worry about it, sweetheart.
Jennifer [00:30:37] I'm lost.
Patrick [00:30:37] Don't you worry about that.
Angela [00:30:38] I also just loved, and I know we're jumping around here, but I loved how snooty Barbara was. Her brooch that she found in Morocco, and now she's never had writer's block again. And then I loved the snark. Was it Rose or Blanche who said, "That you can't wear it with plaid?" I just loved that. I love when someone is snooty and purposely gets a name wrong. Like, the fact that she kept calling her "Madge" was so snarky and passive aggressive.
Patrick [00:31:11] And intentional!
Angela [00:31:11] Yes.
Patrick [00:31:11] Like, the character's clearly doing it up. It's such a nasty move.
Angela [00:31:15] There was a girl when I went to college that when she didn't like someone, she would purposely get their name wrong. It was a whole thing we all picked up on. So if your name was Betsy she'd be like, "Hi, Bette." I'm like, "Bette? Since when do you call me Bette?" Seriously, you'd be Amy and she'd say, "Hi Emile." And you're like, "Emile? Like, what?" She would just get a few letters off and I'm like oh, "She is so damn snarky."
Jennifer [00:31:40] Ew.
Patrick [00:31:40] Yeah. In my opinion, one of the things that makes that show work so well is the guest star. So I wanted to talk to you about your experiences working with guest stars. Whether they're memorable experiences on The Office that worked great, or ones that didn't. And if you all were ever guest stars, what your experience was.
Jenna [00:32:01] Yeah, I mean, the person who comes to mind is Amy Adams, who came in very early on in our first season as a guest star and just crushed it with the type of acting that you had to do, and the looking at camera or not looking at a camera. Amy Adams wasn't marquee Amy Adams when she did our show.
Patrick [00:32:25] She wasn't even nominated for her first Academy Award.
Jenna [00:32:28] No, not yet.
Angela [00:32:30] That movie hadn't even come out yet.
Jenna [00:32:31] So that was crazy. Then what was so freaking cool about her, was that she did her first episode and then in the second season (when she was now "Academy Award nominee Amy Adams" and being courted for all the biggest movies) she was like, "Yeah, I'll come back and I'll do like four lines in an episode and then I'll go sit on a boat for three days in the middle of the night and film 'Booze Cruise' with you guys." She was just so cool and up for it, even as her star was skyrocketing, you know?
Jennifer [00:33:06] That's cool.
Patrick [00:33:07] She said in an interview somewhere, she was like, "You couldn't have kept me away. I would have taken time off from whatever I was doing to go back."
Jenna [00:33:13] That was clear.
Angela [00:33:15] Yeah.
Jenna [00:33:16] For the "Threat Level: Midnight" episode, they reached out to her because the idea was that he had been filming "Threat Level: Midnight" for years. And there would be scenes with people who you'd seen years ago on The Office and they really wanted her in a flashback scene. And she wanted to do it so bad. I can't remember the reason why, Ange, right? But she was on a movie -
Angela [00:33:42] She was in another city. She was literally -
Jenna [00:33:44] She was like, "I'll take a red eye, I'll do it." But the movie wouldn't let her out. She was like, "I want to do this so badly."
Angela [00:33:52] Yeah.
Jennifer [00:33:53] Now, Jenna, you just called Angela "Ange." Does that mean you don't like her? No, are we good?
Angela [00:34:00] [laughing] That's a nickname. Nicknames are allowed. Full on, not your name? Snark. A little snark.
Jennifer [00:34:08] I hope people called her by the wrong name, just to tie it in a bow.
Patrick [00:34:11] Honestly. Angela, do you have a guest star that you remember working with that stands out as a memorable experience, good or bad? If it's bad, you don't have to say their name.
Angela [00:34:20] Oh, no, no. Just memorable. When I think of someone who walked on the set and it was like electricity went through the room, it's Idris Elba. I mean.
Patrick [00:34:30] Oh, God.
Angela [00:34:30] When he walked on this stage,
Patrick [00:34:33] Electricity just went through the room with the mere mention of the name.
Angela [00:34:35] Literally everybody was just like, [swooning] "Oh, hi." He was so charming and he totally got his character. He knew exactly who Charles was. He was amazing and went toe to toe with everyone. Then was also incredibly charming. So yeah, that is one.
Patrick [00:34:56] It translates into the episode, because that was his character. Like, everyone was just swooning all around him in the episode.
Angela [00:35:04] Yeah. I would feel like walking onto our stage, at that point - Because when we talked about Amy Adams that was early in the show, but now this is later in the show. It's very established. The characters are established. To walk in as a guest star then, I feel like would have been really intimidating. I would have be intimidated. He was just there, man. He was ready to go.
Jenna [00:35:27] You know, something about The Office that was very unique to our show was that we all had to be there all day, every day, because we were in the background of each other's scenes. The bullpen was open.
Patrick [00:35:40] Right.
Jenna [00:35:40] So if you were a guest star, you had to ready for that. That comes with the job. I cannot tell you how many humongous stars: Kathy Bates, Idris Elba,
Angela [00:35:54] Timothy Olyphant.
Jenna [00:35:54] Yes. Will Ferrell, came through our doors and just what incredible artists they were because they were like, "Yeah, I'll sit here for four hours while you guys figure out a scene in front of my desk." We were so lucky with our guest stars. Someone who popped in my head who just absolutely delighted me was Andy Daly, as Ben Franklin.
Angela [00:36:18] Oh, he's so good.
Jenna [00:36:21] I couldn't get through those scenes with him. Like, he's so funny.
Patrick [00:36:26] Yes. You know, it's just popping into my mind (and I'm sure she doesn't count as a guest star) but there is another Golden Girls/The Office crossover. And I wonder if you know this. Melora Hardin -
Angela [00:36:36] Oh, I was gonna guess Melora.
Patrick [00:36:38] I love her.
Angela [00:36:38] Melora was on Golden Girls?
Patrick [00:36:43] No, her dad was.
Angela [00:36:45] Oh my gosh, yes!
Patrick [00:36:46] Her dad, I think his name is Jerry Hardin, he played the professor that sexually harassed Blanche. Do you remember that episode?
Angela [00:36:53] Yes, that was Melora's dad?!
Patrick [00:36:56] That's Melora's dad. When we were doing a deep dive on it, I waited till the end and I'm like, "Jen, you're gonna die when I tell you who he's related to." I think his name is Jerry Hardin. It's funny, if you look at him, he looks just like her. You can see her face on him.
Jenna [00:37:12] Wow.
Patrick [00:37:12] Yeah.
Jennifer [00:37:12] I do remember that you found him attractive.
Patrick [00:37:15] Listen, I didn't want to be controversial and be like, "Oh, the guy who sexually harassed Blanche is hot," but Melora Hardin's dad's kind of hot.
Jenna [00:37:21] I mean, Melora is hot.
Angela [00:37:21] Melora is gorgeous.
Jennifer [00:37:23] She's beautiful.
Angela [00:37:24] And the only reason why she came to mind is because of everyone on the show, I feel like Melora had the biggest acting pedigree, as far as generational. She grew up acting. I knew her family. Her dad was in the business. Her mom was a manager and a teacher and an acting coach.
Jenna [00:37:43] Melora was on "Little House on the Prairie."
Angela [00:37:45] Yeah.
Patrick [00:37:46] [gagged] She was?!
Angela, Jenna, Jennifer [essentially in unison] [00:37:47] Yes.
Patrick [00:37:49] It's so funny because I am not an actor. I don't really understand the hierarchy of what a set is like, but I understand that you all are the stars. And then, Melora Hardin comes in and she's a guest star or whatever, but Jan felt like everybody's boss. It really felt like you all were afraid of her. It translated into so far as like, we know they're acting. We know this isn't real, but I can't imagine they actually like her because she's so mean. She's was so perfect and it was all so lived in. I was thinking about what you were saying about the guest stars being Kathy Bates being like, "Sure, I'll come in and watch you guys." I bet that was so fun for them. Were you able to realize how iconic it was while you were doing it? Because I would think even when you're a Kathy Bates or a James Spader or an Idris Elba, they get to come and play in that world for a week (or however long it is). Did you recognize that even though they were big stars, that you were big stars and that them getting to watch you work was probably really fun for them?
Jenna [00:38:49] It's so funny. We interviewed Kathy Bates for Office Ladies and she talked about how intimidated she was. And we were like, "Wait, what?"
Patrick [00:38:59] I know, I know. It's wild.
Angela [00:39:01] Yeah.
Jennifer [00:39:03] I just love that you shared how game these actors were to sit there on set and not have someone stand in for them, or just wait in their trailer or their room. It's just such a reminder, and a lesson, to be a team player and to have fun and not take it so seriously. To have fun and be a good and nice person, be someone people wanna work with. It's really lovely to hear that.
Jenna [00:39:28] Well, to be fair, we were a fun place to work. You didn't wanna be in your trailer. You were gonna miss out on something because if we weren't doing a hilarious scene, we were doing bits off camera and having the best time. You did not wanna be in your trailer.
Jennifer [00:39:46] Cool.
Jenna [00:39:46] There are some sets where you're like, "I'm gonna need to go to my trailer. Because there is toxicity happening that I wanna get away from."
Jennifer [00:39:53] Yeah.
Jenna [00:39:54] But all of these big stars, we were a really artistically satisfying place to be, I think.
Jennifer [00:40:00] I love that.
Patrick [00:40:02] I wanna get to more listener questions, but I would be remiss if I didn't tell you, Jenna, that "Pam, you're missing things" is the thing that my husband and I scream at each other whenever one of us is not in the room that they need to be in. Do you remember that episode?
Jenna [00:40:14] No. What is that line?
Patrick [00:40:16] Oh my God, it is so iconic in our house.
Jenna [00:40:19] Refresh my memory.
Angela [00:40:20] Is it Michael? Was Michael the one that said it?
Patrick [00:40:21] Yeah, it's Michael from off camera, cause it was the vacation day where you all go to the lake, but you didn't get to have a vacation because you had to walk around and write down what everybody was doing.
Jenna [00:40:31] Yes, I had to take diligent notes.
Patrick [00:40:33] Yes, and so there's a shot right before it goes into the commercial where you're talking to the camera and you're like, "I just wanted to come to the beach," and from off camera, you hear Michael go, "Pam, you're missing things." I have watched it so many times and my husband and I just scream it down the hallway to each other. Then Angela, of course, "Save Bandit." Do people just shout that at you in parking lots?
Angela [00:40:58] Yes, people yell "save Bandit." I get that a lot. I know Jenna gets, "please don't throw garbage at my head." Is that what you get, Jenna?
Jenna [00:41:08] "Please don't grow garbage at me."
Angela [00:41:10] "Please don't throw garbage me." And then I have gotten "green is whorish." The one that I always remember, because I was like, "what?" I had gone to see U2 and I was walking to my seats. I was going down a staircase and you know the section right above you, the balcony? As I'm going down, these young guys come to the edge of the balcony and they yell across the section. "Angela, I would take 'The Da Vinci Code' so I could burn 'The DaVinci Code!'"
Angela, Jenna, Jennifer, Patrick [00:41:40] [laughing]
Angela [00:41:42] And that's such a random thing. I was like, "Oh my gosh, right. That's when we all say what we would take to the deserted island."
Patrick [00:41:51] It's also the other one that we say to each other all the time is, "A glass of warm milk, two chapters of a good book and lights out by nine. That's how I sleep at night."
Jenna [00:42:01] That's such a good one.
Patrick [00:42:03] All right, do you have time for a couple more listener questions?
Angela [00:42:06] Sure.
Jenna [00:42:07] We have tons of time.
Angela [00:42:07] Yeah, we're here.
Patrick [00:42:10] Oh god I love you guys. Okay, so we're officially making a podcast together. So Jessica says, "I would love to know where they would live if they could move and live like the Golden Girls. I think it'd be funny to see an episode with Angela, Pam, Kelly and Phyllis in a house for a weekend."
Jenna [00:42:24] Oh my gosh, that's the spinoff we need.
Angela [00:42:28] That is the spinoff.
Patrick [00:42:30] That would be so good. Where would the house be and what would the situation be?
Jenna [00:42:36] I don't know, but Meredith definitely lives next door.
Angela [00:42:37] Meredith's got to be there. Meredith definitely lives next door.
Jenna [00:42:37] We won't let her live with us, but she's moved adjacent to us.
Angela [00:42:42] Maybe she's in the garage apartment.
Jenna [00:42:42] Yes.
Jennifer [00:42:46] I love it. Here's a question I love. If you two could have guest starred on an episode of the Golden Girls, which one would it have been?
Jenna [00:42:54] Oh, I don't know them well enough.
Angela [00:42:58] I wish I did.
Patrick [00:42:59] Or if you could be a character, you can even invent a character.
Jennifer [00:43:04] Yeah, that's one we always ask.
Patrick [00:43:04] Who would you be?
Jennifer [00:43:06] Yeah, which Golden Girl would you say you are and which one would your friends say you are?
Angela [00:43:10] Oh, that's a good one.
Jenna [00:43:12] I know who you would say I am.
Angela [00:43:12] Dorothy?
Jenna [00:43:17] Yes. Yes, I'm Dorothy Zbornak. Yes.
Angela [00:43:23] Am I Rose, Jenna?
Jenna [00:43:25] You are.
Angela [00:43:26] I am Rose.
Jenna [00:43:35] You are.
Angela [00:43:36] Although I know that a Mallomar is a cookie. If I could go on the Golden Girls and be in one episode, I would want to be there the day that Burt Reynolds shows up to the front door.
Patrick [00:43:44] Oh my God. So good.
Angela [00:43:45] It's just me like, "Hey Burt, we're off to lunch or whatever," and everyone else is like, "What?" I mean, talk about a great door opener guest.
Patrick [00:43:54] It's so good. The line is, when he leans into Sophia, "Which one's the slut?" And they all raise their hands. It's just so good. All right, this is a good one. If they could have a mashup between the two shows, which two characters would you love to have a scene together? My two requests would be Meredith and Blanche and then Dwight and Sophia.
Angela [00:44:14] Oh yeah. I mean, I also think Michael with any of them. Really and truly, have a sit down with Michael with any one of those ladies and that would be off to the races.
Patrick [00:44:29] Michael and Rose would be some really good content, I think.
Jenna [00:44:33] I could also see Michael on a date with Blanche because she would blow his mind.
Angela [00:44:40] He did date Pam's mom. So.
Jenna [00:44:43] Exactly.
Patrick [00:44:44] Right!
Jennifer [00:44:45] Yeah, yeah. Wait, here's a last question from Heidi. It says, "if Pam and Angela were to show up on the Golden Girls, what would they look like? Are they related to someone? Are they neighbors? Charity event? Maybe they're on a business trip to the Sabre headquarters?"
Angela [00:45:03] I think, in my heart of hearts, we'd be neighbors and we would be those ladies that do the same walk every morning, you know? Like, I have these two ladies that live at the end of my street. They're side by side. They're widowers. They do this walk. I had lived in my house 10 years, and one day they walked by and they said, "Oh, it's so nice you finally got your fence done." I was like "How long has this bothered them?!" In my heart of hearts, Jenna and I would be these two gals that walk by and comment on people's yards.
Jennifer [00:45:39] I love it.
Patrick [00:45:39] Oh my God, I love that.
Jenna [00:45:41] I have a question after watching this episode.
Patrick [00:45:44] Please.
Jenna [00:45:44] Which is: so a big theme in this episode is first impressions. Barbara makes this really great first impression but then it's not lasting. But then she talks about how maybe she just got a bad first impression of Dorothy's friends and that she'll give them another try. Do you guys remember your first impression of one another?
Patrick [00:46:08] A: it's so kind of you to ask us a question. If I may, Ms. Simard?
Jennifer [00:46:13] Yeah.
Patrick [00:46:13] So Jennifer Simard is a huge Broadway star. She's a three time Tony nominee. She's co-starring in "Death Becomes Her" on Broadway right now. She's got her third Tony nomination. Are you guys on TikTok?
Angela [00:46:25] No.
Patrick [00:46:26] Do you follow the trends?
Jenna [00:46:27] We're not on the tok, guys.
Angela [00:46:28] We're not on the TikTok, but we're, we might get on it. I don't know.
Jenna [00:46:32] Jennifer, I have to pause right now.
Jennifer [00:46:35] Yes?
Jenna [00:46:36] I saw Death Becomes Her with my mom and I did not connect those dots. Holy shit. You're amazing.
Jennifer [00:46:44] Oh, thank you, Jenna.
Jenna [00:46:45] Oh my God.
Patrick [00:46:47] Yeah.
Jennifer [00:46:47] Thank you.
Jenna [00:46:48] It is a triumph. And you are so freaking funny. I saw you on the Tonys, in your seat with your little sign.
Jennifer [00:46:58] Yes. My little sign. that's the TikTok Patrick's referring to. Cause that's from the show.
Patrick [00:47:06] And that went viral, and that's Jen. There's a video of Bette Midler, who's a friend of Jen's, coming backstage after the show. Bette Midler on her knees, bowing to Jennifer, saying how amazing she was.
Angela [00:47:18] Wait, is that online?
Patrick [00:47:19] Yeah.
Jennifer [00:47:20] It's on my Instagram.
Angela [00:47:21] No, I don't know how, because you get the algorithms. But I saw that and I was like, "Damn."
Jenna [00:47:29] Wait a second. Are you going to be on stage tonight?
Jennifer [00:47:33] Yes. Yes, I am.
Angela [00:47:34] Oh my gosh, Jen.
Jennifer [00:47:36] Yes.
Angela [00:47:37] Well, thank you for hopping on and talking with us.
Patrick [00:47:40] She's been doing this the whole time. Let me tell you, we've been making this podcast as long as she's been doing Death Becomes Her. She is such a rock star.
Jennifer [00:47:51] Why would I give up the opportunity to meet incredible humans, such as yourself?
Angela [00:47:55] Oh my gosh. Jen,
Jennifer [00:47:56] I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Angela [00:47:58] I'm so humbled because Jenna and I both, we know what it takes to do a podcast and show up and have that energy. To know that you're also then going to go out on stage tonight, thank you so much for taking the time out from your preparation.
Jenna [00:48:14] I know. My mind is blown right now.
Jennifer [00:48:16] Thank you very much.
Jenna [00:48:17] I don't know how I didn't put that together before.
Jennifer [00:48:19] No, because you know why? I think every actress is inherently a character actress. You have to disappear into that part, you know? You wouldn't know me if you saw me on the street, half the time. So I take it as a compliment, to be perfectly honest.
Jenna [00:48:36] Well, I saw the show with my mom and my mom and I were just like, "I can't believe we got to see those two ladies on stage. We feel so privileged." That's the cool thing about theater, you know? You either see it or you don't.
Patrick [00:48:48] Yes.
Jenna [00:48:48] It's a moment in time, although I have a feeling this is going to be a real long moment because I mean, you know...
Jennifer [00:48:54] It's very good.
Jenna [00:48:55] It's very good, but wow.
Patrick [00:48:58] That was it. I mean, I was a fan of Jen's from years and years and year ago. Then over the pandemic, I found out that Jen was listening to my other podcast (I make a true crime podcast as well) and Jen was a listener to that podcast. So I was blown away by that and so, I slid into her DMs. I'm like, "Hi, I love you. Like, thank you for listening." We went back and forth and then she started coming over.
Jennifer [00:49:19] No, I think I slid into your DMs because "True Crime Obsessed" is a hugely successful podcast. A girlfriend of mine wanted to do one of our own during the pandemic, and you were so kind to information share. But my first impression of Patrick was one of incredible competence and exuberance and genuine excitement and kindness because I was a guest on his "Theater People" podcast back in 2016. Then friends of mine wanted to start a podcast with me. I guess I've been doing it for seven years, since 2018. This venture with Patrick is my third venture, and my favorite to date. But I wanted to thank you for that question.
Jenna [00:49:58] But it was like your first impressions of each other came from your work, from your artistry.
Angela [00:50:04] From your admiration of each other's work.
Jenna [00:50:08] You had an artist crush on one another.
Angela [00:50:08] Yes.
Patrick [00:50:09] Truly.
Jennifer [00:50:10] But isn't it interesting that Rose and Blanche's first impression was the accurate one, so to speak. Do you know what I mean? About who Barbara was, to her core.
Jenna [00:50:20] Yes.
Jennifer [00:50:20] And something else. So Mark Cherry is a friend of the podcast.
Jenna [00:50:23] I heard his interview.
Jennifer [00:50:25] Okay, so you heard what he said. He said that the thing about Rue McClanahan is how good she was at playing all the different colors of a character and how she could play "dumb,"or just kind of flighty. And I that color in her, in this episode. She's just so good at all those different nuances. But the theme that you talk about, that really affected you, Jenna. The theme of this episode, that part of it?
Jenna [00:50:52] Yeah. What's interesting to me is that it made me reflect, because at the end Blanche and Rose's assessment of Barbara is correct.
Patrick [00:51:02] Yeah.
Angela [00:51:03] That she's a crappy person. But it made me reflect about, how in my relationship with Angela, we've each had different friends that we've brought into our lives that we like. And every once in a while there's someone that Angela and I are like, "Huh, really?" Like, Angela will make a new friend and I'll be like, "I don't care for her," and the other way around. Then other times there's people where I'm like, "Oh my gosh, she's a peach. I love her. What a gem of a person." It's kind of interesting to me. After I watched this episode and I was thinking about it, and I said it to you Angela, I was like, "Have you noticed that the ones that the other person didn't like, they didn't actually stick around?"
Patrick [00:51:47] Yeah.
Jennifer [00:51:48] Oh interesting.
Jenna [00:51:49] But not in such a confrontational way or anything, but just a kind of like, "huh."
Jennifer [00:51:55] Like you didn't say "go to hell."
Jenna [00:51:57] No, and I didn't say, "You can't be friends with her." I just said, "I don't love her."
Angela [00:52:02] Yeah. Or vice versa. Or you might just have that moment where you're like, "Hmmm.Okay, okay." And then there's no "I told you so." There's none of that. It's just how it just plays out.
Jennifer [00:52:14] We're getting into a deep area here. This excites me. Let me ask you this question, to the room. Cause we all have that shiny object syndrome in friendship. Since when you're little kids too, you have your really good ride or dies. Then some popular kid likes you and you kind of dump the other kid for a minute. It's not the best quality, but we all understand what that's like. You know how psychologists (or psychiatrists or therapists) will say that we're often drawn to a romantic partner that is tapping into some unhealed wound from our past. There's an attraction there maybe, not always, but because there might be some un-healed trauma. Do you think the same is true with some of these friendships that don't work out? That the attraction is so strong because they are a reflection of something you need to grow or look at? Just hypothetically. I'm sure it's not always that way.
Jenna [00:53:03] I think maybe. I also think sometimes whatever your childhood trauma is, you get drawn to it cause it's familiar. Then you have to be reminded that you don't want that. Then sometimes you get drawn into relationships that heal, that give you the opposite. My friendship with Angela is a healing friendship. It's just a friendship of unconditional love and trust and support and all those things, and it heals me every day. I just love it so much. But like you said, the shiny object is - Oh my gosh, go back to my early dating life. I mean, how much I would be attracted to, I don't wanna say... But you know.
Jennifer [00:53:52] I do.
Jenna [00:53:52] Just not the right person. Because it was familiar, you know?
Patrick [00:53:58] Yes.
Jenna [00:53:58] But it wasn't the healthiest thing.
Patrick [00:54:01] Do you all follow Dr. Ramani? She's a doctor who does a lot of work around narcissism and childhood trauma and stuff. She had a guest on her podcast and she ask what was the number one sign of an adult who has survived childhood trauma? And he said, without skipping a beat, that it's trying to make difficult people like you.
Angela [00:54:22] Oh.
Patrick [00:54:23] And I thought that really resonated with me. When I look at some of the friendships that I've had in my life that have not worked out, or that have ended disastrously, it's because they were difficult and they didn't like me or whatever. And I maybe made it my mission to make them like me, and then ultimately it falls apart. But I was like, "Oh my God. That really spoke to me."
Jennifer [00:54:46] Are we a psychology podcast now?
Angela [00:54:47] All of a sudden we are.
Jenna [00:54:49] We might be.
Angela [00:54:50] I do think too, to maybe wrap up this question, about something Jenna and I have talked a lot about is that there are seasons of friendship and some people come into your life for that season. That's who you were at the time. That's what you needed at the times. Then they might not grow with you, right? As you grow. And that's okay. The other thing is though, you do have people that are going to grow with you and that's the true, true friendships. I'm so thankful for my friendship with Jenna. We didn't meet as young. We weren't teenagers. We don't have those high school memories. We didn't know each other in college. We met later in life, and I think that's really special too, because I think sometimes you think, "I'm too old to make a really good friend" and you close yourself off to that kind of meaningful friendship, but you're not. You're not too old to make a really good friend.
Jennifer [00:55:47] I love that.
Patrick [00:55:48] Did you all meet on The Office?
Jenna [00:55:49] Yeah, we met on The Office.
Angela [00:55:51] We literally met because we were the two closest women to each other. So we just had a partition between us. And we would stand up, I would stand up over the partition and talk to Jenna.
Jenna [00:56:05] Angela was also, to me, the physically closest person, because the reception desk was kind of an island. But I could pass notes to Angela over the partition or between takes, I could just stand up and we could talk. But for me to talk to anyone else, it was a literal journey. I had to walk.
Angela [00:56:23] She had to come out from around the reception desk.
Patrick [00:56:28] I'm sure you've been asked this 10 million times and have answered this 10,000,000 times, but was the character's name Angela, or where they just like, "We like that name. We'll just let you use your real name."
Jenna [00:56:35] You know, basically what Greg has said was there were some new characters that didn't have names, or weren't in the original BBC version of the show. In the writer's room, they were just kind of lazy and gave them our names. So it's Phyllis, Creed, Angela, Oscar. It was just enough to confuse the hell out of everybody.
Patrick [00:56:59] Well, before we let you go, we have to talk about, so Jen Simard is not the only stage star on this call right now, because Ms. Jenna Fischer is doing a play very soon.
Jenna [00:57:10] Yeah. "Ashland Avenue" at the Goodman Theater.
Patrick [00:57:12] Ugh. I love the Goodman.
Jenna [00:57:13] I'm so excited. My husband wrote the play. He went to school in Chicago. He went theater school at DePaul, and this play is a real love letter to Chicago. It's about a small business owner in Chicago who is dealing with the fact that maybe the world doesn't want small businesses anymore, in a way. Like, they don't want his small business. So he's trying to hold onto it. It's kind of a family dramedy. I play this character's daughter, but I'm so excited. I am a huge theater nerd. I texted my vocal coach today and I read my script with my coffee.
Jennifer [00:57:54] Oh wonderful.
Jenna [00:57:54] I just try to read it a couple times a week. We start rehearsal soon and then it opens in September.
Jennifer [00:58:00] Oh, wonderful.
Patrick [00:58:02] And who's directing it?
Jenna [00:58:03] Susan Booth, the artistic director of "The Good Men," and then Fran Guinan plays the lead. He's a big Chicago legend. So I can't believe I get to play his daughter and it's a really great cast.
Patrick [00:58:15] Is this your first time on stage professionally?
Jenna [00:58:17] No, this will be my third time. I got my degree in theater. So it's my first love and it kind of all I want to do now moving forward. Save for, like, if there's some cool little movie role or something that I can sink my teeth into. My hope is that as my kids graduate from high school, I'll move to New York and just try to make it as a theater actress.
Angela [00:58:43] I mean, seriously, Jen.
Jenna [00:58:45] It's my goal in life.
Angela [00:58:46] Her goal in life is to be on stage.
Jenna [00:58:48] It's true, but I can't sing and dance. So you're not going to see me in any musicals.
Jennifer [00:58:52] That's okay. Let's do a play together.
Jenna [00:58:55] Ugh, stop it.
Jennifer [00:58:56] We did the Out of Town in Chicago and it's the greatest theater town. I'm sure you're going to be wonderful and break legs. This is thrilling. And look, New York's not going anywhere. So come on. The water's fine. Come on in.
Jenna [00:59:08] Yeah, thank you. Oh my gosh, Jen, it's all I want to do. I'm just so excited.
Patrick [00:59:14] Steve and I are going to come and see it. No question.
Jenna [00:59:16] Stop it!
Patrick [00:59:16] No for sure. I can't wait. Yeah, for sure. I love the Goodman.
Jenna [00:59:17] Let me know when you come.
Angela [00:59:20] I'm going to go to the opening. If you're going too, I would love to hang out with you. We could grab a drink.
Patrick [00:59:24] Oh my God. If that's a real invitation, then that is when I'm going.
Jenna [00:59:30] Yeah, give me your deets. Give me your details. What do we say? What do the kids say today?
Angela [00:59:34] I don't know.
Jenna [00:59:35] Do we say deets?
Patrick [00:59:36] And Angela, you have a cookbook coming out.
Angela [00:59:38] I do. You guys, my husband is an amazing cook. He's a phenomenal baker and just an amazing chef, and he's self-taught. It's really just a gift that he had within him because I don't know how he's so good at everything; from cookie decorating to cakes to one pot dinners. The man is just a natural in the kitchen. But he really wanted to do a cookbook because something he has really helped me and the kids with, is not being afraid to try to cook and get in there. I was always like, "I can't cook" and he'd be like, "You can." It's where we really fell in love, was in our kitchen, just over a meal together.
Jenna [01:00:20] Awwww.
Angela [01:00:20] We met later in life. We were divorced with kids and that's the heart of our home was the kitchen. So we've been cooking together. We did some YouTube videos and we've been out there for a while. "Bakin' with Josh and Ange" because my family calls me "Ange," Jen. So you can call me Ange.
Jennifer [01:00:40] I can call you Ange, great. "Bakin' with Josh and Ange." That's the name of the cookbook?
Angela [01:00:45] That's our YouTube and our Instagram and all of that. But that is what led years and years of us cooking together and making all these recipes. He has so many great recipes that he has tweaked and made his own. The cookbook is called, "You Can Make This" because that's what he always says to me and the kids.
Jennifer [01:01:08] Love that.
Patrick [01:01:07] I'm gonna do this. I'm going to learn to cook. That's my big dream.
Jennifer [01:01:11] You had me at one pot dinners. I don't have a lot of time.
Jenna [01:01:16] There's great one sheet dinners.
Angela [01:01:16] One pot, one sheet. Yeah.
Jenna [01:01:19] And soups.
Angela [01:01:20] Oh yeah, he loves a soup. And it's just, it's really accessible, easy recipes that are really delicious. And the food photography. You know, we always just take pictures ourselves and this time we hired this gal, Victoria Harris. The book is so beautiful. I could not anticipate that. I'm like, "Oh my God, this is so beautiful." And it's coming out in October. So October 22nd, guys. But you can pre-order now.
Patrick [01:01:45] It's gonna be a big fall book.
Angela [01:01:45] You can pre order now.
Jennifer [01:01:47] There it is.
Patrick [01:01:47] Pre-order now. That makes all the difference. Oh my God. Well, Angela and Jenna, we love you so much. This has been a dream since before we even launched. So thank you.
Jenna [01:01:58] Oh my gosh.
Patrick [01:01:58] Thank you. Thank you for doing this.
Angela [01:01:59] Thank you, for having us.
Jenna [01:02:00] I don't want to leave.
Angela [01:02:01] I know.
Jenna [01:02:02] I love you guys.
Patrick [01:02:03] Maybe, will you come back and do it again?
Jenna [01:02:04] 100% any time.
Angela [01:02:05] Sure.
Jennifer [01:02:08] Who knows, Patrick, maybe when we actually get to the Barbara Thorndyke episode, I have a feeling Jenna took notes and did her homework. Did you do homework?
Jenna [01:02:15] [laughing] I do have some notes.
Angela [01:02:16] I took notes too!
Jennifer [01:02:16] She did. So maybe. So season three.
Patrick [01:02:21] I reached out to your team and I was like, "I don't want them to feel like they have to take notes. We'll just hop on. We'll talk."
Jenna [01:02:25] We can't help ourselves.
Jennifer [01:02:28] Dorothy and Rose did their homework. So maybe for the Barbara Thorndyke episode.
Patrick [01:02:33] Yes.
Jennifer [01:02:34] It's not far from now. Is it season four?
Patrick [01:02:36] Season three. It's coming up soon.
Jennifer [01:02:38] So it's coming up.
Angela [01:02:39] I think it's season three, episode 15.
Patrick [01:02:41] Yeah.
Jenna [01:02:41] I have more thoughts.
Jennifer [01:02:43] We can get a little tea there.
Patrick [01:02:44] I'm coming to your show. You can't keep me away.
Jenna [01:02:46] I hope you are.
Jennifer [01:02:47] And we're getting the book.
Jenna [01:02:48] You're going to get an email today.
Angela [01:02:49] Jen, I can't wait to see you on stage. My gosh.
Jenna [01:02:52] I'm going to make it happen.
Jennifer [01:02:53] Yes, let me know and we'll say hi. You'll come up to the dressing room.
Angela [01:02:57] Oh my God, that'd be amazing. All right. You guys, thank you so much. What a wonderful morning.
Jenna [01:03:01] Thank you!
Patrick [01:03:01] Besties for the resties.
Jennifer [01:03:02] Byeeee
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