TRANSCRIPT
Office Ladies | Episode 315 - The Office’s Most Expensive Moments
Jenna [00:00:04] I'm Jenna Fischer,
Angela [00:00:05] and I'm Angela Kinsey.
Jenna [00:00:06] We were on "The Office" together,
Angela [00:00:08] and we're best friends.
Jenna [00:00:09] And now we're doing the ultimate Office lover's podcast, just for you.
Angela [00:00:13] Each week we will dive deeper into the world of The Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.
Jenna [00:00:21] We're the Office Ladies 6.0.
audio cue [00:00:00] [musical sting]
Jenna [00:00:00] Hello, hello!
Angela [00:00:01] Hello, hello. Let me tell you something, folks that love The Office and love a little behind the scenes tidbit are gonna love this episode.
Jenna [00:00:09] That's right, today we are going to examine some of the most expensive moments on The Office.
Angela [00:00:17] Yes, a lot of you have written in over the years with questions about how we made some of the most memorable moments on The Office happen. So we reached out to our three amazing line producers that worked on The Office over the years.
Jenna [00:00:29] We exchanged emails with Kent Zbornak, known to our Office Ladies folks as "Kentopedia," Randy Cordray and Steve Burgess. They have been so wonderful to us over these many years of doing the re-watch.
Angela [00:00:42] Mm-hmm.
Jenna [00:00:43] And we ask each of them to recall some of the most memorably expensive Office moments from their tenures.
Angela [00:00:50] That's a time twister.
Jenna [00:00:51] It was! I got through it!
Angela [00:00:54] And listen, they had great stuff to share. But first, let's start with a chit chat, and you guys, it's actually from me.
Jenna [00:01:02] This is from Angela K. in Los Angeles.
Angela [00:01:03] It is, Angela K. in Los Angeles wrote in with this, "Dear Office Ladies,"
Jenna [00:01:09] [laughing] That's so formal.
Angela [00:01:12] "Longtime listener. Love you ladies so much."
Jenna [00:01:16] Wow, I love her.
Angela [00:01:17] I know. "I have observed over the years that the two of you love to make a random online purchase that you often think is going to be fantastic and turns out to be a womp-womp."
Jenna [00:01:29] Oh, lady, just pause one second. I got that weird neck massager thing.
Angela [00:01:34] I know, it looks like a vagina.
Jenna [00:01:36] I got it.
Angela [00:01:37] I know.
Jenna [00:01:38] It hurts.
Angela [00:01:38] It hurts so bad. It's such a liar.
Jenna [00:01:42] It's so painful.
Angela [00:01:44] Also, Josh said it didn't hurt his neck and shoulders.
Jenna [00:01:47] Lee loves it.
Angela [00:01:47] It's bigger. It's made for a man.
Jenna [00:01:49] I think so.
Angela [00:01:50] It just squeezed my top of my shoulder. What do you call that?
Jenna [00:01:56] I don't know, that thing, I know what you're talking about.
Angela [00:01:58] By your collarbone, I thought it was gonna fracture or something.
Jenna [00:02:04] It's very intense.
Angela [00:02:06] Okay, so we both bought that.
Jenna [00:02:09] Yeah. But that's not what we're here to talk about.
Angela [00:02:11] That's not what Angela K. was writing in about. Angela is writing in because she recently made an online purchase that she thought would be a great gift for her and her BFF.
Jenna [00:02:21] Okay.
Angela [00:02:22] Jenna F. in Los Angeles. And guess what?
Jenna [00:02:26] [giggling] What?
Angela [00:02:26] It's an absolute mess. But I want to share with you guys how I got here. Okay. I'm going to read something to you, and you tell me if this doesn't get you excited. Let's say that you're at home, you're having some social media time, you're scrolling your Instagram, and this ad pops up. Here's the header. "Look put together, period. Feel like you're still in bed, period!" I mean, this is a fantastic idea. I'm already hooked. It goes on to say, "You know that moment when you catch your reflection and actually like what you see? Even though you haven't really 'gotten dressed?' That's what this set does. The Voluna looks like your favorite denim, the buttons, the pockets."
Jenna [00:03:19] Wait. Wait.
Angela [00:03:20] Have you bought this?
Jenna [00:03:21] No. But when you hit the word "denim" I started to get worried.
Angela [00:03:25] No, no, no. Let me finish.
Jenna [00:03:27] Okay.
Angela [00:03:28] "It looks like your favorite denim, the buttons, the pockets, the classic wash. But the second you put it on, you feel the difference. Soft, stretchy, light as a whisper against your skin."
Jenna [00:03:41] Okay.
Angela [00:03:42] I'm intrigued. It goes on to say, "Throw it on for coffee. Answer the door without changing. Sit through a video call looking polished. This is loungewear that works as hard as you do without ever feeling like work." And then in bold, with a check mark it says, "Looks like jeans, feels like a hug."
Jenna [00:04:02] Lady...
Angela [00:04:03] Then it says another check mark in bold. "Throw it on and you're done! No more changing out of pajamas to answer the door, or hop on a video call. This set looks international from the moment you wake up."
Jenna [00:04:16] It's a set?
Angela [00:04:17] It's a set. It's top and a bottom. I failed the need to show you the picture of what it looks like.
Jenna [00:04:25] This is reminding me of when I bought the entire hair and makeup department on The Office those jeggings.
Angela [00:04:32] Yes, yes, very much.
Jenna [00:04:35] I got so excited.
Angela [00:04:38] Yes. Okay. This is what it looks like. Remember, no more changing out of your pajamas. You can sleep in these, and you wake up looking international.
Jenna [00:04:47] I'm sleeping in my denim set?
Angela [00:04:50] It says :Look put together, feel like you're still in bed." This is the picture.
Jenna [00:04:55] It is beyond cute.
Angela [00:04:58] Beyond cute.
Jenna [00:04:58] Like it's very, very cute. Jordan is here today.
Angela [00:05:01] Yeah, Sam's on vacay. Jordan. Isn't this cute?
Jordan [00:05:03] That's actually really adorable.
Angela [00:05:05] Okay. Wouldn't you want to buy your BFF, who shares the same goal of just being able to walk around all day in pajamas with you, this outfit?
Jenna [00:05:13] It looks like a long sleeve button-down denim top and then jeans. She looks super slouchy, but also she looks sort of effortlessly cool.
Angela [00:05:26] Remember, light as a whisper against your skin, and you're ready for the day. No need to change out of your pajamas. Well, Jenna, you got a pair. Are you ready?
Jenna [00:05:35] Yeah.
Angela [00:05:36] And I want us to put them on.
Jenna [00:05:38] What?!
Angela [00:05:38] Yeah, we're gonna take a picture in them. You guys, why did I buy these? Why? Wait till you see them. Oh my God. I realize this is an audio podcast, but I'll put it in stories. I just had to read what sucked me in, okay?
Jenna [00:05:54] Okay, you did, I need to see them.
Angela [00:05:56] "Look, put together, feel like you're still in bed." Wouldn't you buy that?
Jenna [00:06:00] You bought us each a set?
Angela [00:06:02] Yes.
Jenna [00:06:03] Okay.
Angela [00:06:04] Happy holidays!
Jenna [00:06:05] Let me see. Oh My god, are you kidding me right now? Are you kidding? There's no way that this is what was in that picture.
Angela [00:06:18] I know! It looks so bad!
Jenna [00:06:18] Lady...
Angela [00:06:19] You guys, it looks... I don't even know.
Jenna [00:06:21] It looks like a Halloween costume. It looks like a denim shirt and jeans. There's buttons, but there's no stitching! It's printed on.
Angela [00:06:31] It's like a print on white tablecloth. It feels, maybe...
Jenna [00:06:37] This is not fire safe.
Angela [00:06:38] No, it feels like you can't get close to anything. No open flames.
Jenna [00:06:43] It's 95% polyester and 5% elastane.
Angela [00:06:47] Whatever that is, don't stand near an open flame.
Jenna [00:06:51] It says "low iron if needed," but I wouldn't bring an iron anywhere near this thing.
Angela [00:06:56] Mm-hmm. Well, they're yours now.
Jenna [00:06:57] Can I see the photo again, please?
Angela [00:07:01] Yes! We're doing a side-by-side today.
Jenna [00:07:03] With this lady, hold on. Oh god.
Angela [00:07:05] You know what, my kids say I can't tell AI. I'm that generation. Is she AI?
Jenna [00:07:11] There is no way that this person... First of all, she's not wearing what I'm holding. I'm looking at the cuff, here's the cuff. I'm look at the cuffs by her hand. And the cuff has stitching on it.
Angela [00:07:25] Mom Detective that s**t!
Jenna [00:07:27] And this has no either stitching or the fakie stitching. Yeah, she's not wearing this. The jeans aren't the same. I mean, I'm calling them jeans. Also, she is putting her hand in her pocket.
Angela [00:07:43] There's no pocket.
Jenna [00:07:44] There's no pocket.
Angela [00:07:45] It's a fakey pocket.
Jenna [00:07:47] This is made up.
Angela [00:07:49] This is the ad that you get.
Jenna [00:07:50] You should get...
Angela [00:07:53] What am I doing? Am I writing Voluna and saying...
Jenna [00:07:56] You want your money back. Alright, I'll put it on.
Angela [00:07:59] I'm putting it on.
Jenna [00:07:59] I'll put it on. Lady, thank you. I appreciate you thinking of me.
Angela [00:08:04] Mm-hmm.
Jenna [00:08:05] Your heart was in the right place.
Angela [00:08:07] "Look, put together, feel like you're still in bed." Come on.
Jenna [00:08:10] It's all we've ever wanted.
Angela [00:08:11] I know.
Jenna [00:08:13] I think we should take a break and we're gonna put on our outfits and we gonna podcast in them today.
Angela [00:08:18] We're going to talk about the most expensive moments on The Office while sitting in our highly flammable, non-pajama looking, non-comfy denim set.
Jenna [00:08:31] We don't know they're not comfy yet.
Angela [00:08:32] That's true, that's true.
Jenna [00:08:33] Alright, we'll be back.
audio cue [00:08:39] [musical sting]
Jenna [00:08:40] We are back, and I have to apologize a little bit to the Voluna because I am very comfortable right now.
Angela [00:08:48] I am too.
Jenna [00:08:49] And in a photograph, I think I'm looking good. In person, I look like a cray cray because I'm wearing what looks like -
Angela [00:08:59] It's a print.
Jenna [00:09:00] - a Halloween costume.
Angela [00:09:01] It looks like a Halloween costume. It does photograph well. Also, the pants do have pockets. We thought they didn't.
Jenna [00:09:07] Yeah.
Angela [00:09:08] And you know what? We're ready for a video call.
Jenna [00:09:12] Because it does look good on camera.
Angela [00:09:14] It does.
Jenna [00:09:14] Alright, everyone, let's go ahead and get into some of the most expensive props, episodes, and moments from our nine years on The Office. But before we dive into those, we thought it might be a good idea to get an idea of exactly how our show budgets worked.
Angela [00:09:29] Yes, you need something to compare these expensive moments to. Like, what's the scale here?
Jenna [00:09:34] I need to change out of this outfit. I'm starting to sweat.
Angela [00:09:38] Oh.
Jenna [00:09:39] And the heat...
Angela [00:09:41] It holds in heat.
Jenna [00:09:42] This is not for me.
Angela [00:09:44] It is 95% polyester.
Jenna [00:09:46] I'm going to need a moment. Everyone. I lasted, how long did this last? Not five minutes, since I put it on my body.
Jordan [00:09:54] I think it was, like, 2 minutes.
Angela [00:09:56] In the picture, it looked like that soft, soft denim. I was very excited.
Jenna [00:10:00] Yeah. OK.
Angela [00:10:01] OK. Oh, Jenna's coming back, you're in your cotton shirt. Yes. Your breathable pants.
Jenna [00:10:09] Let's get into budgets. A big thanks to Steve Burgess, who answered our question about budgets. He said, "We had both a per episode and a per season budget." But he said the per season budget was basically just -
Angela [00:10:27] A total.
Jenna [00:10:28] A totaling of the episode budgets. But you could steal. So if you went over on one, you could go under on another and you could balance the books at the end of the season. If they were gonna go over budget, the Universal executives had to approve it. He said that they really, really, really wanted them to stay in budget. It was stressful. If they were gonna over, that overage had to be approved before we started shooting an episode. Steve Burgess says, you might remember, that Greg was often rewriting over the weekend into Monday.
Angela [00:11:05] I was going to say, how can you pre-approve a budget that might change because scenes change?
Jenna [00:11:11] Yeah. He said that sometimes we had already been shooting for a day or two and NBC would get really mad.
Angela [00:11:17] Oh.
Jenna [00:11:17] Yeah, they don't like it. He actually wrote, "They hated it." He actually said, "I'm surprised that Pam Puch" who was their NBC executive "didn't pull all her hair out because we were a very difficult group for NBC to control." But he did say that they always did their best to be as responsible as possible about the money they spent.
Angela [00:11:40] I did love that he said, "NBC didn't yell too much. Winky face." We also heard from Kent Zbornak, our beloved Kentopedia. He was our line producer and executive producer for seasons one through four. We asked him what the most expensive episodes were from his time on The Office. You might remember, he shared with us how very small our budget was in the beginning. Like, crazy small.
Jenna [00:12:08] I mean, we were barely picked up. So they weren't sinking a lot of money into our show. Since Kent was with us in the beginning, I was really trying to think of when the show might have gotten expensive. Because I know we were a shoestring budget for a long time.
Angela [00:12:23] Right, and we both decided to make a list and guess. So what do you think were the most expensive from the early years?
Jenna [00:12:29] So my guesses were "Goodbye, Toby" or "Beach Games."
Angela [00:12:34] Yeah, Beach Games seems like an expensive one.
Jenna [00:12:38] Yeah, and I thought Goodbye Toby because of the whole outdoor carnival.
Angela [00:12:41] Oh, right. Well, I guessed "Booze Cruise," and I only had one on my list. I just went with Booze Cruise. Kent Zbornak did confirm that. Here's what he had to say. He said that in his four seasons on The Office, the most costly episode was Booze Cruise. He put this in all caps: in addition to being on location in Long Beach on the water for three days, they had to pay for an entire additional crew, which consisted of a water coordinator and his crew of 20 sailors and lifeguards. Add that to the cost of all the boat rentals, there were a total of 15.
Jenna [00:13:16] I didn't even see any of this stuff. This was not on my radar.
Angela [00:13:21] I remember the big boat, and of course the little dingy boats that I got stranded in. Let's not forget that part. He said that there was also the cost of the fuel, plus all the film permits from the city of Long Beach, and then the cast and crew had hotels per diem, because they didn't want people driving long distances at night. Then we had all the guest cast: David Denman, Amy Adams, Rob Riggle, Brenda Withers, all the day players, the band (the Scrantones), and then all of the crew hit premium golden hours pay because they were working such late shifts.
Jenna [00:13:55] Oh yeah, that's when you get double triple time.
Angela [00:13:58] Yeah, they did that three days on this shoot.
Jenna [00:14:01] Wow.
Angela [00:14:02] Then of course, don't forget all the little extras like the warm heaters that we had, the jackets, all of those things.
Jenna [00:14:10] Yeah, I think about that all the time. Whenever we were doing something where we were cold, Booze Cruise was kind of the first one. The wardrobe department had warm boots. They had hand warmers. They had a big coat for each one of us. It had our character name in it.
Angela [00:14:28] Yeah, they were huge. They looked like sleeping bags, but they were a coat.
Jenna [00:14:31] And if you've ever had to buy those hand warmers and toe warmers, those are expensive and they would buy those for the whole cast.
Angela [00:14:39] And crew. Everyone had them. Yeah.
Jenna [00:14:42] Well, something else I remember from Booze Cruise, is that boat was really bare bones. Kent sent me photos of it, and my memory is that it was just a shell. I don't even think there were those booths. Don't quote me, but I feel like we had to add all those elements for our shoot.
Angela [00:15:01] I had no idea. I thought that boat came with all those seats and stuff.
Jenna [00:15:05] I don't think so.
Angela [00:15:06] We had to create a dance floor, I remember that.
Jenna [00:15:08] We had to do the fakie wheel that Dwight uses on the front of the boat.
Angela [00:15:13] And when we originally broke down this episode for the podcast, Greg Daniels joined us in the studio and we talked about all kinds of amazing elements. But I did ask him about one particular shot. It's from outside the boat, looking back onto the ship. It brought him to this great little share about Ken's ability to stretch a budget. Let's hear it.
clip - Angela [00:15:36] I have a question for you, Greg. I've been waiting to ask you this. At 11 minutes, 34 seconds. There's this beautiful shot that goes outside of the boat and goes around the boat. You pass Dwight, right? Like, steering, and it goes around the boat, how did we do that?
clip - Greg Daniels [00:15:54] That is Kent Zbornak. So Kent was our line producer and he was also in the DGA and he managed to launch us on the budget that we had (which was tiny) into Long Beach Harbor on a boat, for days, and get hotel rooms for everybody. He realized that we really needed a shot like that. He shot that himself with his own equipment while we were shooting the rest of it. Because he just had an instinct that there was no way the production could get that and stop everything. So that was kind of a guerrilla move and super valuable. Kent was fantastic at doing those kinds of things. Like, he was always stitching together amazing stuff on our little budget.
Jenna [00:16:41] I remember that story.
Angela [00:16:43] So the tiny budget of those early years, Kent had to get really creative with.
Jenna [00:16:49] Well, I know something that was not expensive for Booze Cruise.
Angela [00:16:52] What?
Jenna [00:16:53] The cans of soup that y'all had to use to throw up. That was not an expensive line item, and then it didn't even make it in.
Angela [00:17:02] It didn't even make it in. We had to fake puke minestrone soup. Ugghh. Anyway, sorry
Jenna [00:17:08] Well, Kent also shared what he called the "most expensive element" of an episode. He said the most surprisingly costly gag was in the "Business School" episode and it was the bat gag. He said CGI was kind of in its infancy. Prices were really costly back then. So animating that bat cost a lot of money. You know, we talk about this in our breakdown of Business School. It really was an elaborate undertaking because we had a live bat, two bat wranglers, a mechanical bat, and then all the CGI.
Angela [00:17:51] Crazy. It looks phenomenal when you watch it.
Jenna [00:17:54] Still to this day.
Angela [00:17:56] And then Jenna, your list that you talked about at the beginning that you thought was most expensive, Kent actually laid it out for us. Goodbye Toby came in at number two.
Jenna [00:18:04] Okay. Okay.
Angela [00:18:06] Beach Games was number three and for a show on location, he said that was surprisingly inexpensive. The lake that we used is part of the LA parks and permit and location fees were not costly at all. The most expensive gag from that was probably the fire pit.
Jenna [00:18:29] Oh yeah, I mean... Are there any other big gags from that episode? Cause you're right. We're all just kind of out there in the sand.
Angela [00:18:37] Mhm.
Jenna [00:18:38] I mean, I guess Ed floating in the water? But honestly, that was just a boat and some rope.
Angela [00:18:43] It was a tiny rowboat, and one guy in it, and they tethered Ed. They had a long rope, and they would just kind of push him out. I was just talking to Oscar Nunez about this. He had just rewatched Beach Games. He goes, "You can't even tell it's Ed."
Jenna [00:18:59] [laughing] I know.
Angela [00:18:59] It's dark out there. He was floating in that water for so long.
Jenna [00:19:05] Like, a really long time.
Angela [00:19:08] Oh, Ed... I mean, there's only one or two moments where you can clearly see his face.
Jenna [00:19:12] There's so many things like that, so many practical things that I feel like actors today just don't have to do. I mean, when we were talking to those guys about "The Paper," they're like, "Oh no, we don't drive cars on real roads. It's all studio green screen." We're like, "Oh, really?"
Angela [00:19:28] For the four hours we were filming they might have had a double for it. Maybe it wasn't in our budget.
Jenna [00:19:36] Alright everyone, let's move on to seasons five through seven. This is when Randy Cordray was our producer and Steve Burgess was our unit production manager.
Angela [00:19:45] Without even having to ask, I immediately thought the most expensive episode would have been with Jim and Pam, the proposal from "Weight Loss Part Two," because we built that whole thing.
Jenna [00:19:56] Yes, same, and we are correct. Randy said that the two-parter of Weight Loss was not only the first episode of his tenure, but it was almost a half a million dollars over budget.
Angela [00:20:08] Can you imagine how stressed you are? This is your first time working on the show. You know NBC is gonna be breathing down your neck to stay in budget and you get the one that's over half a million dollars past your budget. I can't even imagine how stressed he was.
Jenna [00:20:23] He said it was mostly due to the Jim and Pam engagement scene where we had to build the gas station in the rain on a fakie highway in the middle of a Home Depot parking lot.
Angela [00:20:32] And have a gazillion cars and stunt drivers whizzing by.
Jenna [00:20:35] Yes, that cost $175,000 for that. Just... How many minutes of footage? Not a lot.
Angela [00:20:42] Randy also mentioned three more episodes from season five that went way over budget. Let's see if you guys listening can guess. First off, "Stress Relief."
Jenna [00:20:51] Of course.
Angela [00:20:52] Right? It was a two parter, but it was $540,000 over budget and it's not because of what you think. I was trying to think of all the different things we did in that episode that might've been expensive, and it was partly because of our big name guest star actors: Cloris Leachman, Jack Black, and Jessica Alba. You know the movie they all star in? You know, the one that Jim and Pam and Andy are watching and they're so invested in? We shot that on 35 millimeter film.
Jenna [00:21:20] Whoa.
Angela [00:21:21] Which is very expensive.
Jenna [00:21:23] I don't think I knew that.
Angela [00:21:25] I didn't either! And we never did that on our show.
Jenna [00:21:28] No! I want to say, unnecessary? I mean, they watch it on a laptop. I don't know... I mean if I'm Pam at NBC Universal, when I see that episode come out, am I thinking it was the right thing, to shoot that on 35 millimeter?
Angela [00:21:44] You might have called BS.
Jenna [00:21:48] I might have. Well, I guess the biggest expense from those episodes, though, was the fire drill cold open. Specifically, the "Save Bandit" moment.
Angela [00:21:56] That does not surprise me.
Jenna [00:21:58] Randy said that gag where you throw Bandit up into the drop ceiling and then it subsequently falls back down, that was a little over $24,000 all in. That the animal trainer budget was $12,000 just in and of itself. There was set construction, to build a platform up in the ceiling so that the person could safely sit up there with the cat. They had stunts to safeguard Oscar, the cat trainers, they had to make the fakie cat, and then they had the airbag that the cat fell onto. It was a lot.
Angela [00:22:31] It was a lot, and we had a rehearsal. That was extra time for everyone. Little shout out to when we broke down Stress Relief. We really get into that moment and we hear from the director. We hear from writers, producers. It's a really fun listen. So just wanna shout out that episode.
Jenna [00:22:48] Alright, another over-budget episode was "Lecture Circuit." Now, this episode was a two-parter, but it began as a single episode. As a simple episode, it went about $400,000 over budget. But when they decided to make it into two episodes, it helped to balance the books.
Angela [00:23:09] Uh-huh. Take a little here. Add a little there.
Jenna [00:23:13] But, Lady, that scene at Angela's house with all her cats, they had a cat budget for that. Almost $9,000 of cats.
Angela [00:23:22] That's a lot of kitty cat.
Jenna [00:23:24] I mean, this gets into Angela and how does she afford all her cats. They're not inexpensive, especially with all of their (clearly a lot of) medical bills.
Angela [00:23:33] Listen, I don't know if you remember what her apartment looked like. It didn't look like she put a lot into home furnishings. I think all of her money went into cats. You saw her wardrobe.
Jenna [00:23:42] Yeah, true.
Angela [00:23:43] Finally, the last big expensive episode from season five was, drum roll [makes a drum roll noise], "Company Picnic." That one came in at $496,000 over their half hour pattern budget. So you guys, we were on location for four days out in the Malibu Hills in Calamigos Ranch. It was a huge cast. They brought back so many characters for that, plus they had all the background cast. They brought back Idris Elba, they brought Amy Ryan, and I guess we had around 200 background performers for all four days. Finally, we used the "Scrubs" hospital set for the ER scene with Jim and Pam.
Jenna [00:24:24] I remember that. It was super weird.
Angela [00:24:26] Was it weird?
Jenna [00:24:26] Yeah, for sure. Yeah. There were also a number of very expensive moments in season five. So these did not put our episodes over budget, but they did stand out. For example, season five, episode 10, "Moroccan Christmas." The cold open, that's when Dwight shows up and his desk has been wrapped in gift wrap, but then he puts his briefcase on it and it all collapses. Okay, the cost to build that using breakaway chicken wire and gift wrap was $14,200 in labor and materials. Makes you wonder how Jim did it. Really, really does.
Angela [00:25:07] Yeah. Oh, we have more. We have more Jim pranks to discuss.
Jenna [00:25:10] The gag to have Meredith's hair catch fire; the total cost for stunts, wigs, fireproof costumes, special effects, and safety advisors was $15,500. The Princess Unicorn doll manufacturing and packaging was $9,500.
Angela [00:25:28] Plus, they had to record [singing] "My horn can pierce the sky."
Jenna [00:25:32] They did. And yet, this episode still managed to come in pretty close to budget.
Angela [00:25:36] That's impressive, with all those elements.
Jenna [00:25:39] I know.
Angela [00:25:39] Randy pointed out two more big ticket expenses. In "The Duel," the cost to restore Andy's Prius (remember how it gets all banged up?) at a local body shop was $6,500.
Jenna [00:25:53] That's a cost, I feel like, you don't think about.
Angela [00:25:54] Right.
Jenna [00:25:55] When we dented the car with the watermelon, they have to get the car fixed.
Angela [00:26:02] Yes. You have to repair it. That's a rental that you have to return, right? Also, do you remember the cold open from "Prince Family Paper?" Lady, I had forgotten about this cold open. I always remember that episode because it breaks my heart.
Jenna [00:26:15] That's my "Scott's Tots." That's the cringe one that I can't watch.
Angela [00:26:17] Right? It just breaks your heart. But I forgot about the prank at the beginning. Jim sets up this elaborate prank. You know what? I pulled a clip to refresh your memory.
clip from The Office - Jim [00:26:33] What's this?
clip from The Office - Dwight [00:26:35] Looks like a red wire. It wasn't here before.
clip from The Office - Jim [00:26:40] Well, it's a computer, Dwight. Computers have wires.
clip from The Office - Dwight [00:26:43] Yours doesn't.
clip from The Office - Jim [00:26:45] Doesn't it?
clip from The Office - Dwight [00:26:47] No. It's going in a different direction than the other wires.
clip from The Office - Jim [00:26:52] Dwight, I'm really busy. I can't talk about this anymore.
clip from The Office - Dwight [00:26:57] [sounds of shuffling]
clip from The Office - Jim [00:27:03] [talking head] I got 500 feet of red wire at a flea market up by Dunmore High School. 20 bucks for the whole spool. Crazy. What a deal. [looks back] Oh, he'll be fine. I made it up there.
Angela [00:27:17] Alright, Jim. You got $20 worth of red wire, right? He still had to run it through the entire office. Under Phyllis's desk, around the corner, down the hall, out of the building, up a telephone pole.
Jenna [00:27:31] Yeah, how'd he get up there?
Angela [00:27:34] Yeah! I mean, here's what it really cost. First of all, they had to put all the stunt throughout the office, right? They had to do that. Then they had build a safe pole in the parking lot. They had build the whole pole.
Jenna [00:27:47] Oh yeah, he couldn't climb up a real utility pole.
Angela [00:27:50] No, of course not. Then Rainn had to climb it, so then they had to get a green screen, do all the compositing, all in it was $16,500. Not 20 bucks, Jim.
Jenna [00:28:01] Yeah, Jim's pranks did not cost Jim a lot, but they cost us a lot. You know what I'm saying?
Angela [00:28:09] [laughing] I think they cost the Office production a lot.
Jenna [00:28:11] They did.
Angela [00:28:11] I wonder if NBC execs would see a Jim prank in a cold open and be like, "S**t. D**n it." Pam Putsch would be like UGHHHH.
Jenna [00:28:21] Exactly. Do you remember when we did our Office Ladies Live fan mailbag episode? There was a fan, Joe V. from Oregon, and he broke down every single one of Jim's pranks on Dwight.
Angela [00:28:35] Yes, that's right.
Jenna [00:28:37] With real numbers. Let me look. Hold on. I'm gonna go...
Angela [00:28:41] Pull it up, lady.
Jenna [00:28:41] I'm gonna pull this up. That was amazing detail and accounting by Joe.
Jenna [00:28:46] Yes, so he estimated that Jim spent $1,809.11 on pranking Dwight over the nine seasons. He estimated that the most expensive prank was the tear away suit. That would have cost him the most. We go into it in this episode, he has a whole breakdown of exactly how much everything cost in his estimation, if Jim was real crafty. He didn't pay a set construction team to make a desk and wrap it in wrapping paper. He didn't build a fakie pole.
Angela [00:29:25] Yeah. He didn't build a utility pole.
Jenna [00:29:27] Yeah, he takes Jim at his word and says, "Okay, sure Jim, that prank with the red wire cost you $20 and a lot of effort." That's the other thing that I love. Joe said, "I'm not counting his sweat equity. I'm counting the cost of his time, which is clearly a lot." He got that for free.
Angela [00:29:50] Think about what Jim could have done with that money, maybe they didn't have to buy his parents' place.
Jenna [00:29:58] Yeah, maybe he didn't have to invest their savings in his company. They would have had some extra money.
Angela [00:30:05] Yeah.
Jenna [00:30:05] Yeah, just a thought, Jim, about how he spent your family's money.
Angela [00:30:12] Alright, I think that brings us to season six.
Jenna [00:30:14] It does. Season six had a lot of episodes that went over our usual budget. This is not confirmed, but in looking at all of this accounting, dare I say season six might have been our most expensive. For example, "The Delivery" parts one and two, they had to build the whole hospital set as well as Jim and Pam's kitchen that Dwight then demolishes. We have Andy's play. This had major music and licensing fees, a live orchestra, and lots of additional cast. Just to fill the theater with background performers for Andy's play, that cost over $75,000.
Angela [00:30:55] Wow.
Jenna [00:30:56] And then, who can forget "Threat Level: Midnight?"
Angela [00:31:00] When Randy emailed us about it, he literally wrote. "Whoa. This one was a doozy!"
Jenna [00:31:07] It sure was. We had guest cast, extras, locations, transportation, an ice rink, minor skaters. Anytime someone is a kid, it's more expensive because you have to add the cost of the child advocate and the tutor. There was also music, choreography, special effects, visual effects. That episode put us almost a half a million dollars over budget. But Randy said, "This one had it all. I sure believe it was all worth it. This episode consistently ranks as a fan favorite."
Angela [00:31:40] It does, Randy, it does. God bless you for having to make that call to NBC. This brings us, though, to the most expensive episode from season six.
Jenna [00:31:52] Randy actually said it was the single most expensive episode that took place in his tenure. Should we say it together?
Angela [00:31:59] Mm-hmm.
Angela [00:32:01] [Angela and Jenna, in unison] "Niagara."
Angela [00:32:02] Yeah, when we posed this question to all three of the fellas, Steve Burgess said, "The first thing that jumps to mind is the Niagara episode. Randy was producing, but I was the UPM and I was working with the budget. If you remember," he said, "we first thought Dwight was going to ride a horse over the falls."
Jenna [00:32:22] Oh yeah.
Angela [00:32:23] We talked quite a bit about that when we broke down this episode. It was a whole storyline that Greg had. It didn't end up happening. But they did have to do all of this prep towards that story.
Jenna [00:32:34] Oh lady, we talk about it in the episode. They trained a horse to jump into water. Over on the Paramount lot.
Angela [00:32:43] That huge giant parking lot that they can fill with water to make it look like an ocean. I think they used it in that Jim Carrey movie.
Jenna [00:32:50] Yes.
Angela [00:32:51] What's that one?
Jenna [00:32:52] "Bruce Almighty?"
Angela [00:32:53] No.
Jenna [00:32:56] "Liar Liar?"
Angela [00:32:56] No. What's the one where he doesn't know he's in a reality show?
Matt [00:32:59] "The Truman Show?"
Angela [00:33:00] Yes! Don't quote me on that, but I think that's the place they did that. Anyway, back on topic here.
Jenna [00:33:08] Side note, I don't know if you've watched The Truman show lately, it really holds up. It is really moving and still really funny. It's super, super good.
Angela [00:33:18] No, how is that you've seen it? I haven't seen it in years.
Jenna [00:33:21] We showed it to our son. We're looking for good movies that we could watch together. Also I thought "Forrest Gump" held up really well.
Angela [00:33:29] Yeah, we watched that one too, it did.
Jenna [00:33:31] There's a couple that didn't, but I won't call them out. I'm not gonna say if you didn't hold up, but I am gonna shout you out if you do.
Angela [00:33:37] Okay, good. Yeah, we watched one recently that did not hold up, and there were so many boobs, and I forgot there were boobs.
Jenna [00:33:43] Oh my god, the amount of gratuitous boobs in movies for a few decades.
Angela [00:33:47] There was just a whole decade of boobs, just everywhere.
Jenna [00:33:50] Yes, I know. We grew up with that. We grew up with gratuitous boobs in movies.
Angela [00:33:56] Yeah, and I forgot. I was like, "Oh my God!" Anyway, okay.
Jenna [00:34:00] Even my beloved "Die Hard" has a gratuitous boob in the beginning.
Angela [00:34:03] Oh, yeah.
Jenna [00:34:04] Yeah, it's too bad.
Angela [00:34:06] Okay, anyway. Back to Niagara, where there were no boobs but there was maybe gonna be a horse going over a fall. So Steve said, "When we have the table read for the episode, our NBC execs asked me if we were a million over budget, and I was happy to say, 'No, only $975,000 over.' They laughed and said, 'Yep, a million, over.'" That said, I guess Randy Cordray still had to really fight to have that skeleton crew go to the actual Niagara Falls because NBC wanted you to shoot it on a blue screen.
Jenna [00:34:43] Mm-hmm.
Angela [00:34:43] Steve said that we all agreed that would have looked like crap and ultimately Randy won the fight to shoot on location.
Jenna [00:34:50] Yeah, Randy told me that the New York-Niagara Falls unit cost right around $122,000.
Angela [00:35:00] There were also several episodes this season that I would not have guessed would have come with such a big ticket price. For example, Randy also said surprisingly, "Koi Pond" was a very expensive episode. Think about the set construction, the decoration for the koi pond, all of that was around $80,000. The koi fish provided by the animal trainers were about 17 grand. Costumes for that Halloween cold open were around 32 grand, and then it aired but then was ultimately cut.
Jenna [00:35:29] Yeah, that's right.
Angela [00:35:31] So that rounds out to an expensive episode.
Jenna [00:35:34] Well, Randy also mentioned "Shareholder Meeting." He said that the scenes on location downtown were expensive. Also, they had to factor in transportation costs, the large number of background performers. And I did not know this; we needed an extra day of filming to finish that episode. While we would normally have five days to finish an episode, this one took six. But guess what? I also didn't know this! Another episode from season six helped to balance the books, and it was none other than "Scott's Tots." That one was originally budgeted pretty high because of the choreographer, dancers, extras, and locations. But director BJ Novak was so efficient that they finished his episode in only four days. He finished a whole day early, so that helped balance the book for that extra day that they needed for shareholder meeting.
Angela [00:36:30] I'm so curious if BJ is the only director in the history of The Office that got his episode in in four days.
Jenna [00:36:37] Oh, that's a great question.
Angela [00:36:39] Right? I mean, that seems so difficult to do.
Jenna [00:36:42] I feel like I remember a couple of times when we would come back to work after, like, a holiday weekend.
Angela [00:36:50] Mm-hmm.
Jenna [00:36:50] Like an MLK day weekend or a president's weekend, and we were forced to shoot an episode in only four days. But they would plan it so that it was one of those, what did they call them? Bottle episodes? Where they just took place in the office. No big stunts.
Angela [00:37:06] Like a conference room episode where we're just in there.
Jenna [00:37:10] Right. And we could bang those out in four days.
Angela [00:37:13] Yeah. Randy also shares a bunch of other tidbits from this season. I just wanna shout out just one or two randos, ready?
Jenna [00:37:19] Okay.
Angela [00:37:19] The swans for "Secret Santa" were $9,600, in case you're wondering what it costs to put some swans in an episode. Also, you remember Joe Bennett's Great Danes from "Manager and Salesman?" For the week, those Great Danes were $21,000.
Jenna [00:37:37] [quietly] My God.
Angela [00:37:38] Dogs and swans cost a lot, y'all. Finally, both Randy and Steve Burgess talked about what all went into the episode, "Garage Sale." Randy said the Michael/Holly proposal scene cost about $74,000. They had to strike the annex over a weekend, build a waterproof collecting pan underneath, then rebuild and redress the annex. Once that was accomplished, Special Effects had to rig overhead sprinklers. They brought in this large warm water system so Steve and Amy wouldn't be completely doused in freezing cold water. Steve also went on to say, you guys, they had a second and third floor ready to go (to replace) if the sprinklers did ruin the floor in that first take.
Jenna [00:38:21] But we didn't need it, they did it in one.
Angela [00:38:23] Yeah, thankfully.
Jenna [00:38:25] Alright, let's move into seasons eight and nine. There was a very clear winner for most expensive episode in season eight. I wasn't there, but you were there, Angela, and it was season eight, "Pool Party."
Angela [00:38:38] Oh my gosh. For those of us that spent a week in that house, and many days in the swimming pool, ugh. That's what I want to say. I mean, we will never forget Pool Party. Kind of like a rite of passage. We still go, "Oh, remember being in the pool?" And I was in the pool with that prosthetic belly.
Jenna [00:38:55] Yes.
Angela [00:38:55] Let's not forget that. Steve said it was another very expensive episode. When we first broke down this episode, Steve shared with us that they couldn't find a house with a pool that worked. So they shot the interior of the house in a different location from the house that had the pool. Charles McDougall, the director, wanted an indoor pool, which apparently did not exist.
Jenna [00:39:18] Well, very hard to find in Southern California.
Angela [00:39:20] I know, who wants an indoor pool in Southern California? No one.
Jenna [00:39:24] Exactly.
Angela [00:39:25] They did find this house that had an indoor/outdoor pool but they had to have construction crews work around the clock to enclose the outdoor part of it to make it look like it was a completely indoor pool. Steve shared pictures with us on how they stitched together the two different houses and all the work they did. It was really wild. Incidentally, I did ask Steve Burgess what my prosthetic belly cost, that I had to swim and pretend to be fake pregnant in. He said, "Angela, I'm so sorry, I don't know the specifics about your pregnancy pad, but I remember having an intricate timeline because we had to keep making your belly bigger"
Jenna [00:40:02] . Oh, wow.
Angela [00:40:04] Yeah, to advance the pregnancy. Some of them we built, some of them, we might've rented. I do remember that the costume department had a $20,000 budget for this episode in particular. There you go.
Jenna [00:40:18] Wow. It's crazy to me that Pool Party was so darned expensive. I had guessed that the finale would have cost a fortune and Steve said yes, the series finale was crazy expensive. But it was planned. It was planned as a double episode which meant a larger budget. It didn't cover all the costs. He said, "Just the fact that we shot so many days in a row, all the locations, the huge cast, the music, all of it, it was a big episode." But ultimately, besides the finale, Steve said season nine did not have that much crazy expensive stuff. But there was one thing, one very odd thing that was expensive. Angela, this made me laugh so much.
Angela [00:41:00] Yeah, we got really tickled about this, you guys. Steve said the most sneaky, expensive thing in season nine was making the fake turtle that Kevin runs over in the premiere of "New Guys." You guys remember that, his little turtle that he has to patch up. Steve said Phil got a quote to make a bunch of turtles in different stages of being run over and patched up. And Steve Burgess said, "I don't remember the exact number, but it was astronomical." When I asked Greg if it was worth the cost, his answer was, "Of course, it will be really funny." Steve said we spent the money, and Greg was right. It was hilarious. And then from then on, between the two of them, every time Greg had an expensive idea, Steve would say, "Is this turtle funny?" If not, then we wouldn't spend the money. Sometimes it was funnier than the turtle, and then we would spend the money.
Jenna [00:41:50] Wow. I love that their shorthand became, is this turtle funny?
Angela [00:41:57] Yeah. Also in that episode, Dwight rides a bike on a high wire and falls.
Jenna [00:42:02] Oh my gosh. I remember that.
Angela [00:42:03] That was nuts. I was so stressed about that.
Jenna [00:42:05] I wasn't comfortable, I was worried. That was Rainn.
Angela [00:42:09] Yeah. That was Rainn. They did have a lot of stunt rigging, obviously, but still. Between Rainn and the stunt guy and all that, it was the roof of our building. It was high.
Jenna [00:42:22] Yeah.
Angela [00:42:22] It made me so stressed. But Steve said that we had to have a crane to anchor the wire on one end. We had to put in our own telephone pole on the other end. They had airbags and cardboard boxes under the wire, just in case the stuntman fell. They had to bring in a fire engine to rescue Dwight. That cost money. They had a build a scaffold up to the wire. I guess Rainn was only about two feet off the deck of the scaffold and not in any danger. It still looked terrifying though.
Jenna [00:42:50] Yeah, the wide shot of Dwight hanging, that was a stunt person.
Angela [00:42:56] All in all, a very expensive stunt and a very expensive way to start season nine.
Jenna [00:43:02] Well everyone, there you go. That was an overview of some of the most expensive moments on The Office.
Angela [00:43:09] Yes, and if you listen to our rewatch breakdowns, you know we often also break down the cost of music and extra props and gags. That's not even including all those, as we discuss this episode.
Jenna [00:43:19] Yes, no, we get into this in every episode. But I think my final thought here is that comedy is not cheap.
Angela [00:43:28] It's not cheap.
Jenna [00:43:29] A lot goes into making an episode. But also, every time we spent this money, we were employing people. We were employ people in their craft.
Angela [00:43:38] Yes.
Jenna [00:43:40] The people who had to make the fake turtles, that's a livelihood. You know? Construction crews.
Angela [00:43:46] Yes. The animal wranglers.
Jenna [00:43:49] Yes.
Angela [00:43:49] All of these different amazing professions that go into TV and movie making. It was exciting. It was excited to have their input and always so rewarding to see it pay off.
Jenna [00:44:01] And I'd like to give a final thought to why it makes me so sad to think about elements like this being done with AI, and not people. Not people that we're employing to have jobs and livelihoods. I think of all the things that we just listed could in the future just be AI background performers instead of the $75,000 that we paid out in salary to fill that theater for Andy's play. "Oh, we'll just- paint that in with AI." And then all those people don't have a day of work. All the food services and the extra PAs that we hire.
Angela [00:44:41] All the trickle-down jobs.
Jenna [00:44:42] Yeah. You know? All of that, that's our industry. That's the entertainment industry. So listen, let's try and keep making movies and TV with real people.
Angela [00:44:52] One hundred percent, lady.
Jenna [00:44:56] Well, anyway, a big thank you to Kent and Randy and Steve for all of those amazing details. You guys never disappoint. We're so, so grateful to you.
Angela [00:45:04] Love you guys so much. And of course, Steve Burgess ends every email with a picture from his garden. Makes me so happy. They're three wonderful, wonderful people we were so fortunate to work with.
Jenna [00:45:16] Alright, everyone, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna be back with a little Around the Town and a little Office question of the week.
audio cue [00:45:25] [musical sting]
Jenna [00:45:25] Alright, we are back and we haven't done Around the Town in a little while. Angela, I've really missed it.
Angela [00:45:30] I love Around the town.
Jenna [00:45:32] Me too and you're gonna really like this one from Julia H. in Longmont, Colorado. Julia said, "Since I know that you ladies love a good airport exhibition, I thought you would particularly wanna hear about the one happening at the Denver Airport in Concourse C right now."
Angela [00:45:48] What, Julia?
Jenna [00:45:50] She says, "It's something I think Jenna would love in particular. It is an exhibit about dresses with pockets."
Angela [00:45:56] Get out. I fly to that airport all the time to see Josh's family. I've got to go find Concourse C.
Jenna [00:46:02] I was recently in San Francisco, lady, and I saw all the telephones.
Angela [00:46:07] I know, you texted me and made me so happy. Wasn't that a cool exhibit?
Jenna [00:46:11] It was a very, very cool exhibit.
Angela [00:46:13] Thank you. Wait, Julia sent us a link to this exhibit about dresses with pockets. Lady, this is so cool.
Jenna [00:46:24] Yeah, it says, "This exhibition invites viewers to slow down within a space of movement and transition. In an environment defined by travel and passage, this work offers moments of pause and reflection."
Angela [00:46:37] "It celebrates the power of personal narrative and shared humanity through the language of wearable form."
Jenna [00:46:43] I like it.
Angela [00:46:44] I like it too, I'll put a link in stories to it, everybody.
Jenna [00:46:47] Oh my gosh, did you hear? In other airport news, one of my text threads was just blowing up the other day because of this new TSA rule. Have you heard this?
Angela [00:46:57] No. What is it?
Jenna [00:46:58] If you have, or have ever had TSA PreCheck, you don't need to have a ticket in order to go through security and go to the gate anymore. Jordan is nodding. You read this too?
Angela [00:47:11] I don't understand.
Jordan [00:47:13] I was informed last night. You can be a guest and if you have the TSA pre-check, you don't need a ticket and you literally can walk.
Angela [00:47:21] Your loved one to their gate?
Jordan [00:47:23] Yeah.
Angela [00:47:23] Like old school in the 70's? Where you could sit at the gate and hang out and say goodbye before they got on the plane? This is amazing. Especially, you guys, where I'm at in my season of life with my teenagers who are going to be going off to college. This means I don't have to say goodbye at the curb. I can walk in if their college is in a different state and I can sit there with them till they get on the plane.
Jenna [00:47:47] Yes.
Angela [00:47:48] I have a picture of me with my grandparents and my mom and dad. We had flown to see them one summer. There's a picture of us all sitting by the gate. My grandparents sat there with us the whole time. I treasure it, you know? But that's a thing I didn't think my kids would ever experience. We could sit with their grandparents and wait to get on the plane.
Jenna [00:48:14] Now you do have to apply for gate access one to three days in advance, with this program.
Angela [00:48:20] Do you go online and do it or something?
Jenna [00:48:22] I don't know, I didn't get into it.
Angela [00:48:22] You're like, "I don't know everything, Angela. I just found out."
Jenna [00:48:25] I don't know everything about the whole process, but anyway. Yeah, it feels like it's gonna get real crowded.
Angela [00:48:33] It feels like it might get crowded, but I'm also gonna be happy to sit at the gate.
Jenna [00:48:37] Well, listen if it's crowded you can take a moment (at least if you're in Denver) and you can go to concourse C and you can see this exhibit on dresses with pockets.
Angela [00:48:49] Okay, well there you go. We do have one more Around the Town. Erica M. from Ithaca, New York wrote in to say, "I'm writing to share about Ithacas annual porch fest."
Jenna [00:49:00] Tell me more.
Angela [00:49:01] I know, right? "Which takes place on a Sunday afternoon." I'm already in heaven. "In late September," come on, Erica. Checking all my boxes. "It's in some of the residential neighborhoods in downtown Ithica. Residents volunteer their porches, front yards and driveways as stages and local musicians play one-hour concerts throughout the afternoon. Concert goers walk or bike around the neighborhood and watch whatever bands they like. Kids come with scooters and tricycles, they have lemonade stands and bake sales. Ithaca started its first Porch Fest in 2007 and since then the concept has grown to more than 250 other towns in the country, also some in Australia and Canada. It is definitely a grassroots community event." And she put a link to it. How charming.
Jenna [00:49:54] So charming. This is what Around the Town was made for, everyone.
Angela [00:50:00] Exactly.
Jenna [00:50:00] Well, unfortunately we have missed the Ithaca New York Porch Fest for this year. But putting on our radar for next year. Also, there might be other porch fests at other times of the year
Angela [00:50:11] Yeah, I'll put a link. There's a whole website about it where you can find out where they're happening.
Jenna [00:50:16] Well, finally, let's do our Office question of the week. This comes from Ross M. in Wexford, Ireland, who says, "Hi Ladies, loving the podcast. As I work through the years to catch up, it is perflektenschlag. My question for you both is, what was the toughest scene for you to film throughout the series run? Not technically, but for you as an actor."
Angela [00:50:39] I mean, such a good question, Ross. Well, I have one that comes to mind because it truly was really difficult. But not in a bad way, but also I got reprimanded by a director.
Jenna [00:50:54] Oh.
Angela [00:50:55] So did you, Jenna. We were in it together. It's when I come over the partition and I ask you if Roy has ever mercy killed one of your pets. I'm dressed in all black and I'm teary because Dwight has put sprinkles in the freezer. I have this whole speech to Pam and we could not get through it. I had to stay in this emotional place, you know? That whole episode, I was teary. I actually had a headache by the end of it because I was just in different stages of crying throughout the day, and sadness. Plus I had a tight French braid pulling on my scalp. But then, to have you make me laugh so hard, but then I had to then try to stay sad. Then we kept laughing and we couldn't stop laughing because it's that thing where then you know you're not allowed to laugh.
Jenna [00:51:50] Yeah.
Angela [00:51:51] Forget it. The director was like, "Do we need to give you guys a break because we're going into grace, it's lunchtime." And we were like, "Oh sh*t, we got to pull it together." That was really tough.
Jenna [00:52:04] That was tough. That's a good one.
Angela [00:52:06] Pretend to be sad, super, super sad. The worst thing that can imagine has happened to you. Your cat has been killed by your lover and don't laugh. Don't laugh because your BFF is making you laugh.
Jenna [00:52:19] Well, not on purpose!
Angela [00:52:20] I know.
Jenna [00:52:22] Alright, well, I had two things come to mind. One of them is sort of similar, Angela, where I had to work against my true feelings about something. You were having to be serious when you wanted to be laughing, and mine was kind of the opposite. I think of that scene where Roy and Pam have been in a fight. Then in order to sort of turn her around, he has to tickle her and she has to like it and just be charmed by it. I deeply hate tickling, but I also find it just like... I don't know, I don't like that kind of tomfoolery. Like, you know what I don't need a dude to do is throw me in a pool? "Ha ha ha, it's so funny. I picked you up and now you are in a pool."
Angela [00:53:15] "I'm gonna pants you, ha ha ha. Here's a wedgie."
Jenna [00:53:19] I know. And also just like, "Oh, are you in a bad mood? Tickle, tickle!" I'm like, "No, I'm in a bad mood."
Angela [00:53:26] I once dated a guy who, when I was legitimately upset, like "You were supposed to pick me up and you forgot."
Jenna [00:53:33] As Pam was in that episode.
Angela [00:53:34] Yes. And then he would say this to me. He'd go, [sassy voice] "Oh, anger, anger."
Jenna [00:53:41] Oh, no.
Angela [00:53:41] And I was like, "You want to see anger?"
Jenna [00:53:49] Yeah, so that was hard for me. Because I had to sort of just put aside all my feelings about tickling and let Pam be won over. Not by Roy apologizing or hearing her feelings, but simply by tickling her.
Angela [00:54:07] That's the cure. That's it. That that's all you got to do.
Jenna [00:54:10] I know, "She was so serious. Smile more, Pam." Okay, so then the other scene that was really, really hard for me in the series run was in season nine. It's when I had to break down on the phone crying. It's right before the boom operator comes over and comforts Pam. What was so hard about that was John and I were separated. So the only thing I had was just his voice on a phone. I couldn't see his face, we couldn't look at each other.
Angela [00:54:41] So you couldn't play off the emotion in his face.
Jenna [00:54:43] It was harder, and we did that scene, and he was actually on the phone. I was really grateful for that. That was Kelly Cantley's episode, and she insisted that we be able to hear one another. She was like, "I think he needs to be coming through the phone," but I was having a hard time. And I shared this when we broke down this episode, that they actually had John Krasinski go off script, still as Jim, but he got really... Kind of mean Jim, in order to help me cry.
Angela [00:55:17] Right. Kind of shock you, take you aback.
Jenna [00:55:21] Yeah, and the thing is like, you hear about that sometimes when actors do that. I think if it's agreed upon, it's okay. There's this famous story from "Kramer Versus Kramer" where Dustin Hoffman decides to throw a glass, not a breakaway glass an actual glass, in the middle of a scene with Meryl Streep and It rightfully pissed her off. That kind of unsafe... To get a reaction, it's kind of "Hey, dude. I'll take care of my acting. I don't need you to shock me into a reaction."
Angela [00:55:51] Yeah, "You don't need to cut my face."
Jenna [00:55:54] But this was like, "Hey, John, would you be willing to do this?" And he was "Yeah, I'll do it, but you can never use this side of it because it's not what Jim would really say." And we were like, "Agree. But can you help me?" I think if we were in person, it would have been easier, but he really helped me with that performance. It was really hard for me. So that was a hard scene.
Angela [00:56:14] I think it's great to have scene partners you trust that can help you just make that moment (whatever it is) happen, whether it's sad or happy or whatever. It was always an interesting dance that Phyllis and my character had to do because they were true frenemies and they would be downright mean to each other and it was always hard for me to be mean to Phyllis as Angela Kinsey. But very easy for me to be mean to her as Angela Martin. So it was kind of an interesting dynamic.
Jenna [00:56:49] Well, thanks for your question Ross and thank you to everyone for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode
Angela [00:56:54] Yeah, we hope you have a great one. We'll see you next week.
Jenna [00:56:57] See you then.
audio cue [00:56:57] [musical sting]
Jenna [00:00:17] Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.
Angela [00:00:19] Office Ladies is a presentation of Audacy and is produced by Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey.
Jenna [00:00:24] Our senior producer is Matt Beagle and our audio engineer is Sam Kieffer.
Angela [00:00:32] Audacy's executive producer is Leah Reis-Dennis.
Jenna [00:00:35] Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.
Angela [00:00:37] Our theme song is "Rubber Tree" by Creed Bratton.